Metrolink to / from Etihad

Johnny Mars Bar said:
There’s nothing to “disagree” about. The transport situation is objectively not good enough. That’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a fact.

My point is an obvious one; by closing already congested roads you will cause chaos on the surrounding road network. That’s just physics. Those cars have to go somewhere.

I do not have an answer, because I a not a town planner and there is no easy quick cheap solution, despite what all the geniuses on here would like to think.
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A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.
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There are tram park and rides.............not big enough and the trams are shyte.

Buses non existent. They can't even get the basics right.


Dont get me started on parking restrictions and how I now get a text from the club telling me when sales for car parking take place. Never used to get them.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.
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It was worse than that. It specifically made it a condition of planning permission that no car parking provision would be allowed for the arena. It wasn't just silent on the matter, it deliberately made it worse.

There is a particular lobby group who have the ears of the councils that believe if you make it hard for car drivers, they will switch to alternatives. This fails to notice that 1) they don't change behaviour and will stay in cars for longer and 2) by not putting in alternatives up front they won't actually change anything.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.
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I agree with all of that.

We do have the infrastructure. There are buses, trams, park and ride schemes, cycling and walking infrastructure, all these things you mention.

They are all just a bit shit compared with other first world modern European cities.

We all know what the problems are, it’s the solutions that are not easy.

Metrolink has too many single points of failure by design. If a single tram breaks down at Cornbrook for example, it kills the entire network. That is poor design, and dates back to when the system was first drawn up in the early 90s.
 
mancityvstoke said:
There are tram park and rides.............not big enough and the trams are shyte.

Buses non existent. They can't even get the basics right.


Dont get me started on parking restrictions and how I now get a text from the club telling me when sales for car parking take place. Never used to get them.
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Those incessant text messages from City are in clear breach of GDPR. I never opted in to receive them and there is no way of opting out.

I blocked the contact, which I shouldn’t have to do.
 
Johnny Mars Bar said:
What happens to traffic when you close already completely congested roads?

There is no quick and easy solution to a complex problem.
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If they're already completely congested, it makes no difference if you close the road.

In this case, from town the signed route for Ashton is Ashton Old Road. Ashton New Road is signed only for Droylsden and Clayton. All it needs is a matrix sign on Great Ancoats Street saying "Event congestion on A662 - use A635 for Clayton, Droyslden, and Ashton" with temporary signage on Ashton Old Road to direct people back to Ashton New Road (e.g. Fairfield Road / Edge Lane).

(Taxis would still head for ANR but at least we wouldn't have an artic tanker blocking traffic as we did a few weeks ago. How the driver of a 53 bus ended up on Every Street last month is still a mystery.)

And don't forget Braess's paradox. https://supernet.isenberg.umass.edu/articles/braess-encyc.pdf
Yes, some of us have studied this stuff!
 
jockblue said:
It was worse than that. It specifically made it a condition of planning permission that no car parking provision would be allowed for the arena. It wasn't just silent on the matter, it deliberately made it worse.

There is a particular lobby group who have the ears of the councils that believe if you make it hard for car drivers, they will switch to alternatives. This fails to notice that 1) they don't change behaviour and will stay in cars for longer and 2) by not putting in alternatives up front they won't actually change anything.
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Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.
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Lest we forget where the Tories spent some of the HS2 "Network North" money:

Network North.jpg
 

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Citizen of Legoland said:
I would be asking him how they propose to run trains directly across the throat of Piccadilly station without impacting all the current services, to then squeeze new services along the already packed Castlefield corridor all in the aim of a train that runs in circles.
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That's a fair point, I have wondered about that myself, perhaps it's going to be a tram link shuttling back and forward between Pic and Vic via Ardwick. The conversation I had with him was over a pint, and we started talking about the parking restrictions on streets around the ground and how Pollard street being traffic and trams and pedestrians doesn't work.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.
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Putting some decent lighting on along the canal would make it an option for those able to walk (at least in principle). I walk to the stadium when there's still sunlight, but it's just too risky/unsafe to walk back to the city center after the game during winter.

Plus it would help the numerous joggers along the canal. I imagine this wouldn't cost millions, but judging from its current state it's clearly not a priority (the only change I have noticed is the flags that mark the distance, which presumably City itself put on).
 
adopted_manc said:
Putting some decent lighting on along the canal would make it an option for those able to walk (at least in principle). I walk to the stadium when there's still sunlight, but it's just too risky/unsafe to walk back to the city center after the game during winter.

Plus it would help the numerous joggers along the canal. I imagine this wouldn't cost millions, but judging from its current state it's clearly not a priority (the only change I have noticed is the flags that mark the distance, which presumably City itself put on).
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When you look at the transport infrastructure around the West Ham (former Olympic) Stadium it really shows how we are shafted in the North of England. Loads of rail/tube/overground transport options. Loads of buses and taxis. Canal and riverside walks plus a huge shopping centre. There are lots of waterfront bars and restaurants at Hackney Wick which is right by the stadium.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
When you look at the transport infrastructure around the West Ham (former Olympic) Stadium it really shows how we are shafted in the North of England. Loads of rail/tube/overground transport options. Loads of buses and taxis. Canal and riverside walks plus a huge shopping centre. There are lots of waterfront bars and restaurants at Hackney Wick which is right by the stadium.
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We’ve got Mary D’s and that chippy that sells “Irish curry”, what more do you want?
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
When you look at the transport infrastructure around the West Ham (former Olympic) Stadium it really shows how we are shafted in the North of England. Loads of rail/tube/overground transport options. Loads of buses and taxis. Canal and riverside walks plus a huge shopping centre. There are lots of waterfront bars and restaurants at Hackney Wick which is right by the stadium.
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Asked for a price of a taxi back to Piccadilly Station.
£20.Walked there in the end.
 
bennyboy said:
Asked for a price of a taxi back to Piccadilly Station.
£20.Walked there in the end.
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It’s the one thing that will stop me going eventually. It’s just such a faff. The hassle of going is just getting worse by the season. I think we played Arsenal in the FA cup the other year on a Friday night for TV, no trains were running for whatever reason and it took me 2 hrs to drive from Warrington.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
That's a fair point, I have wondered about that myself, perhaps it's going to be a tram link shuttling back and forward between Pic and Vic via Ardwick. The conversation I had with him was over a pint, and we started talking about the parking restrictions on streets around the ground and how Pollard street being traffic and trams and pedestrians doesn't work.
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Possibly the discussion around tram-trains a few years back that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere now. I think they were looking at changing the Hyde and Hadfield lines to tram-trains and possibly switching them to run to Victoria but don’t remember any talk about rebuilding the viaduct into Piccadilly.
 
Vic said:
If they're already completely congested, it makes no difference if you close the road.

In this case, from town the signed route for Ashton is Ashton Old Road. Ashton New Road is signed only for Droylsden and Clayton. All it needs is a matrix sign on Great Ancoats Street saying "Event congestion on A662 - use A635 for Clayton, Droyslden, and Ashton" with temporary signage on Ashton Old Road to direct people back to Ashton New Road (e.g. Fairfield Road / Edge Lane).

(Taxis would still head for ANR but at least we wouldn't have an artic tanker blocking traffic as we did a few weeks ago. How the driver of a 53 bus ended up on Every Street last month is still a mystery.)

And don't forget Braess's paradox. https://supernet.isenberg.umass.edu/articles/braess-encyc.pdf
Yes, some of us have studied this stuff!
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No one is saying close an already congested road. We are saying that 15 minutes after kick off, when all the taxis have left and buses are parked up, close the roads then
 
Blue Mist said:
No one is saying close an already congested road. We are saying that 15 minutes after kick off, when all the taxis have left and buses are parked up, close the roads then
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I think you might be the only one saying that. Close roads during the match?
 
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