Metrolink to / from Etihad

[Vic]

No problem, when I see him next I will bring it up, but i will say he has nothing to gain by making stuff up. He's very high up in the council and it's his department that would be heavily involved in such a scheme and he's a genuine guy.

Then he must have an estimate of the cost... and whether he can guarantee that any train company (or GBR) would run trains to a new station. Several new stations have been built then the operators decide not to stop trains there, or not as many as promised, notably Reston in Scotland and closer to home Warrington West. And that's on lines with trains passing through, not a line that would need its own special services.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

What happens to traffic when you close already completely congested roads?

There is no quick and easy solution to a complex problem.

There is no need for general traffic in the Pollard Street area. It should be buses, taxis, and trams only. Virtually all major stadiums I have been to here and abroad don’t allow traffic on the immediately adjacent roads before and after matches. I can’t think of anywhere worse than our place other than Anfield which is also a total shit show.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

There is no need for general traffic in the Pollard Street area. It should be buses, taxis, and trams only. Virtually all major stadiums I have been to here and abroad don’t allow traffic on the immediately adjacent roads before and after matches. I can’t think of anywhere worse than our place other than Anfield which is also a total shit show.

That doesn’t answer the problem. Traffic does use those streets, and it gets extremely busy. Closing them would cause even more chaos. Just look at the controversy over low traffic neighbourhoods where side streets are blocked off during rush hour. All those cars have to go somewhere.

The problem is the Etihad is so close to a busy city centre that has rapidly expanded in recent years.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

During covid a lot of them retrained......
And became covid experts .........
they then undertook training in the roles you mention. :-)

When they’re not moonlighting as Middle Eastern political scientists or army generals of course.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

That doesn’t answer the problem. Traffic does use those streets, and it gets extremely busy. Closing them would cause even more chaos. Just look at the controversy over low traffic neighbourhoods where side streets are blocked off during rush hour. All those cars have to go somewhere.

The problem is the Etihad is so close to a busy city centre that has rapidly expanded in recent years.

We will have to disagree. The situation at our place is a disgrace. Much worse than Old Trafford. Lots of places are close to housing. All the major London stadia are better. The transport report for the new arena was a laughable document. There will be a fatality soon at City, either by crushing or an accident, and the authorities will start wringing their hands.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

We will have to disagree. The situation at our place is a disgrace. Much worse than Old Trafford. Lots of places are close to housing. All the major London stadia are better. The transport report for the new arena was a laughable document. There will be a fatality soon at City, either by crushing or an accident, and the authorities will start wringing their hands.

There’s nothing to “disagree” about. The transport situation is objectively not good enough. That’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a fact.

My point is an obvious one; by closing already congested roads you will cause chaos on the surrounding road network. That’s just physics. Those cars have to go somewhere.

I do not have an answer, because I a not a town planner and there is no easy quick cheap solution, despite what all the geniuses on here would like to think.

 

[mancityvstoke]

What happens to traffic when you close already completely congested roads?

There is no quick and easy solution to a complex problem.

They start beeping their horns like crazy?

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

They start beeping their horns like crazy?

Never fails to magically hurry things along!

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

There’s nothing to “disagree” about. The transport situation is objectively not good enough. That’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a fact.

My point is an obvious one; by closing already congested roads you will cause chaos on the surrounding road network. That’s just physics. Those cars have to go somewhere.

I do not have an answer, because I a not a town planner and there is no easy quick cheap solution, despite what all the geniuses on here would like to think.

A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.

 

[mancityvstoke]

A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.

There are tram park and rides.............not big enough and the trams are shyte.

Buses non existent. They can't even get the basics right.


Dont get me started on parking restrictions and how I now get a text from the club telling me when sales for car parking take place. Never used to get them.

 

[jockblue]

I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.

It was worse than that. It specifically made it a condition of planning permission that no car parking provision would be allowed for the arena. It wasn't just silent on the matter, it deliberately made it worse.

There is a particular lobby group who have the ears of the councils that believe if you make it hard for car drivers, they will switch to alternatives. This fails to notice that 1) they don't change behaviour and will stay in cars for longer and 2) by not putting in alternatives up front they won't actually change anything.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

A lot of European stadia do pretty well with simple things like large taxi ranks, park and rides, and shuttle buses. It would be a start. There just seems to be total lethargy about infrastructure in general. They made a big noise about improving the signage on the walking route but we have been in this stadium for more than 20 years now. I did dig out the transport documents (at the time) for the new arena plans. It was a truly pathetic report. Essentially "do nothing." I think this shows contempt for the paying customers for music events and football.

I agree with all of that.

We do have the infrastructure. There are buses, trams, park and ride schemes, cycling and walking infrastructure, all these things you mention.

They are all just a bit shit compared with other first world modern European cities.

We all know what the problems are, it’s the solutions that are not easy.

Metrolink has too many single points of failure by design. If a single tram breaks down at Cornbrook for example, it kills the entire network. That is poor design, and dates back to when the system was first drawn up in the early 90s.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

There are tram park and rides.............not big enough and the trams are shyte.

Buses non existent. They can't even get the basics right.


Dont get me started on parking restrictions and how I now get a text from the club telling me when sales for car parking take place. Never used to get them.

Those incessant text messages from City are in clear breach of GDPR. I never opted in to receive them and there is no way of opting out.

I blocked the contact, which I shouldn’t have to do.

 

[Vic]

What happens to traffic when you close already completely congested roads?

There is no quick and easy solution to a complex problem.

If they're already completely congested, it makes no difference if you close the road.

In this case, from town the signed route for Ashton is Ashton Old Road. Ashton New Road is signed only for Droylsden and Clayton. All it needs is a matrix sign on Great Ancoats Street saying "Event congestion on A662 - use A635 for Clayton, Droyslden, and Ashton" with temporary signage on Ashton Old Road to direct people back to Ashton New Road (e.g. Fairfield Road / Edge Lane).

(Taxis would still head for ANR but at least we wouldn't have an artic tanker blocking traffic as we did a few weeks ago. How the driver of a 53 bus ended up on Every Street last month is still a mystery.)

And don't forget Braess's paradox. https://supernet.isenberg.umass.edu/articles/braess-encyc.pdf
Yes, some of us have studied this stuff!

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

It was worse than that. It specifically made it a condition of planning permission that no car parking provision would be allowed for the arena. It wasn't just silent on the matter, it deliberately made it worse.

There is a particular lobby group who have the ears of the councils that believe if you make it hard for car drivers, they will switch to alternatives. This fails to notice that 1) they don't change behaviour and will stay in cars for longer and 2) by not putting in alternatives up front they won't actually change anything.

Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.

 

[Vic]

Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.

Lest we forget where the Tories spent some of the HS2 "Network North" money:

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I would be asking him how they propose to run trains directly across the throat of Piccadilly station without impacting all the current services, to then squeeze new services along the already packed Castlefield corridor all in the aim of a train that runs in circles.

That's a fair point, I have wondered about that myself, perhaps it's going to be a tram link shuttling back and forward between Pic and Vic via Ardwick. The conversation I had with him was over a pint, and we started talking about the parking restrictions on streets around the ground and how Pollard street being traffic and trams and pedestrians doesn't work.

 

[adopted_manc]

Very few people want to take their car if they can avoid it. The rail services have essentially collapsed in the North West and there has been little or no investment in the roads. I used to always get the train in from Lancashire and walk from town but the service is now such a shambles that this has become very diffcult. I have also been impacted by medical issues which have affected my mobility. Walking down a freezing canal path in the pitch dark is not a realistic option. Meanwhiile billions has been invested in London's public transport.

Putting some decent lighting on along the canal would make it an option for those able to walk (at least in principle). I walk to the stadium when there's still sunlight, but it's just too risky/unsafe to walk back to the city center after the game during winter.

Plus it would help the numerous joggers along the canal. I imagine this wouldn't cost millions, but judging from its current state it's clearly not a priority (the only change I have noticed is the flags that mark the distance, which presumably City itself put on).

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Putting some decent lighting on along the canal would make it an option for those able to walk (at least in principle). I walk to the stadium when there's still sunlight, but it's just too risky/unsafe to walk back to the city center after the game during winter.

Plus it would help the numerous joggers along the canal. I imagine this wouldn't cost millions, but judging from its current state it's clearly not a priority (the only change I have noticed is the flags that mark the distance, which presumably City itself put on).

When you look at the transport infrastructure around the West Ham (former Olympic) Stadium it really shows how we are shafted in the North of England. Loads of rail/tube/overground transport options. Loads of buses and taxis. Canal and riverside walks plus a huge shopping centre. There are lots of waterfront bars and restaurants at Hackney Wick which is right by the stadium.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

When you look at the transport infrastructure around the West Ham (former Olympic) Stadium it really shows how we are shafted in the North of England. Loads of rail/tube/overground transport options. Loads of buses and taxis. Canal and riverside walks plus a huge shopping centre. There are lots of waterfront bars and restaurants at Hackney Wick which is right by the stadium.

We’ve got Mary D’s and that chippy that sells “Irish curry”, what more do you want?