Middle East Conflict (merged)

[cucumberman]

That's what it looks like on the surface.
But historical facts paints a completely different picture.
For example, Jews were expelled from Medina around 624AD. Also, we know what happened to Jews in Khaybar (we hear chants of this massacre every Saturday in the streets of London).
These events events happened centuries before the creation of Israel.

Jews were not all expelled from Medina.
Only the three Jew tribes Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna were eventually expelled.

Prior to expulsion (and for the most heinous Jews, death penalty) Jews were provided equal rights to other religions.

The reason why the specific Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna Jews were expelled were because of their belief in the Promised Land and that only Jews are deserving of the earth (dunya).

When Islam began governing both Medina and Mecca and surroundings, the Constitution of Medina was declared.

It declared equal rights for ALL religions and tribes and to protect the territory from outsider invasion. Declared by the Muslim governor Muhammad.

One example is tax. For Muslims, they annually had (and still now today they do) to pay for zakah. The collected zakah is then funded to 6 Muslim groups of the territory, viz.
1) fakir (very poor)
2) miskin (poor)
3) aul (someone who does the zakah)
4) hutang (those with severe debt)
5) ibnu sabil (wanderers who are homeless)
6) fisabilillah (volunteer soldiers to protect the territory and all the religious tribes within).

Those who are not in any one of the six above are required to pay tax (zakah).

For non-Muslims (i.e. Christians, Jews, Druze, Polytheists) they are not allowed to pay zakah, but its equivalent tax which is jizyah. The tax are of equivalent amount to zakah with the exception that the funds go to the non-Muslim very poor, poor, jizyah, those in severe debt, wanderers, and volunteer soldiers to protect the Medina-Mecca territory. The non-Muslim volunteer soldiers are called dhimmis and they are exempted from tax.

In general, the order of the Medina constitution is protection of all Medina and Meccan populace from external harm. Even because of the Constitution that Mohammad’s staunchest (the polytheist Abu Sufian supreme commander of the Quraisy Mecca) who only intent was to kill Muhammad in their many battles were eventually pacified and became Muhammad’s ally. Muhammad had every opportunity to assign death penalty to the person (Abu Sufian) who wanted to assassinate Muhammad, but Abu Sufian was forgiven and thus the polytheist Quraisy and the monotheistic Abrahamic religions became interfaith.

The only Jews expelled from Medina Mecca and their territories were the Nadir, Qanuyna and Qurayza because they were zealots who wanted to kill the governor and all Muslims so that the land is only Jew.

Add-on fact, the word zealot is Hebrew because Jews were the first known concept of zealotry (even before Japan shinobi (ninjas) and the Arab hashashins (ie. Assassins)). The most known Jew zealots being the Sicarii who killed any Jew person against monofaith. Thousands of Jew civilians were killed by the Sicarii Jews.

During the Greco-Roman Caesarea age, many years before Islam came to be, the zealots and Sicarii were the militia (extremists) who killed civilians including moderate Jews.

The equivalent of extremists in today’s age include the Kahanist (Kach and Eyal being two of them), the Irgun, Palmach, Lehi, and earlier in the 1930s the ZFG in Nazi Germany, and the RZI in fascist Italy.

ZFG was headed by Jabotinsky who founded Betar, and RZI was headed by Weizmann who followed Jabotinsky’s Betar. Betar is pro-fascism and fascist state. Their Beitar fatigue is fascism.

 

[xgorton]

Two RAF Typhoon jets and a refuelling tanker left for Israel last night to help guard Israel.

Its a pity they don't guard the poor women and children in Palestine.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Netanyahu doesn't want the establishment of a Palestinian state. And was willing to kill an Israeli leader to prevent it.

Easy to say that now while ignoring the historic rejection of the two state solution by the Arabs of Palestine.
First the Peel commission report was rejected. Then the League of Nations recommendations was rejected. Next is the Camp David accord. Every rejection is followed with an attack on the Jewish population.

Why do we always like to place a burden on the Jewish people that no other country in the world would accept?

In the context of today, Israel traded land for peace with Egypt. No wars between these countries to date.
Israel traded land for peace with the Palestinians in Gaza. They did not get the peace they wanted. they have every right to reclaim the land they won from Egypt.

 

[kaz7]

Two RAF Typhoon jets and a refuelling tanker left for Israel last night to help guard Israel.

I hate this , wtf are we sending our airforce to shoot down missles for israel , us and the yanks should be saying you have done enough in gaza and if you choose to be the agressors then you shoot your own missles down , we are enabling them and the idf under that horrible leader are out of control

 

[robbieh]

Jews were not all expelled from Medina.
Only the three Jew tribes Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna were eventually expelled.

Prior to expulsion (and for the most heinous Jews, death penalty) Jews were provided equal rights to other religions.

The reason why the specific Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna Jews were expelled were because of their belief in the Promised Land and that only Jews are deserving of the earth (dunya).

When Islam began governing both Medina and Mecca and surroundings, the Constitution of Medina was declared.

It declared equal rights for ALL religions and tribes and to protect the territory from outsider invasion. Declared by the Muslim governor Muhammad.

One example is tax. For Muslims, they annually had (and still now today they do) to pay for zakah. The collected zakah is then funded to 6 Muslim groups of the territory, viz.
1) fakir (very poor)
2) miskin (poor)
3) aul (someone who does the zakah)
4) hutang (those with severe debt)
5) ibnu sabil (wanderers who are homeless)
6) fisabilillah (volunteer soldiers to protect the territory and all the religious tribes within).

Those who are not in any one of the six above are required to pay tax (zakah).

For non-Muslims (i.e. Christians, Jews, Druze, Polytheists) they are not allowed to pay zakah, but its equivalent tax which is jizyah. The tax are of equivalent amount to zakah with the exception that the funds go to the non-Muslim very poor, poor, jizyah, those in severe debt, wanderers, and volunteer soldiers to protect the Medina-Mecca territory. The non-Muslim volunteer soldiers are called dhimmis and they are exempted from tax.

In general, the order of the Medina constitution is protection of all Medina and Meccan populace from external harm. Even because of the Constitution that Mohammad’s staunchest (the polytheist Abu Sufian supreme commander of the Quraisy Mecca) who only intent was to kill Muhammad in their many battles were eventually pacified and became Muhammad’s ally. Muhammad had every opportunity to assign death penalty to the person (Abu Sufian) who wanted to assassinate Muhammad, but Abu Sufian was forgiven and thus the polytheist Quraisy and the monotheistic Abrahamic religions became interfaith.

The only Jews expelled from Medina Mecca and their territories were the Nadir, Qanuyna and Qurayza because they were zealots who wanted to kill the governor and all Muslims so that the land is only Jew.

Add-on fact, the word zealot is Hebrew because Jews were the first known concept of zealotry (even before Japan shinobi (ninjas) and the Arab hashashins (ie. Assassins)). The most known Jew zealots being the Sicarii who killed any Jew person against monofaith. Thousands of Jew civilians were killed by the Sicarii Jews.

During the Greco-Roman Caesarea age, many years before Islam came to be, the zealots and Sicarii were the militia (extremists) who killed civilians including moderate Jews.

The equivalent of extremists in today’s age include the Kahanist (Kach and Eyal being two of them), the Irgun, Palmach, Lehi, and earlier in the 1930s the ZFG in Nazi Germany, and the RZI in fascist Italy.

ZFG was headed by Jabotinsky who founded Betar, and RZI was headed by Weizmann who followed Jabotinsky’s Betar. Betar is pro-fascism and fascist state. Their Beitar fatigue is fascism.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Jews were not all expelled from Medina.
Only the three Jew tribes Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna were eventually expelled.

Prior to expulsion (and for the most heinous Jews, death penalty) Jews were provided equal rights to other religions.

The reason why the specific Nadir, Qurayza and Qanuyna Jews were expelled were because of their belief in the Promised Land and that only Jews are deserving of the earth (dunya).

When Islam began governing both Medina and Mecca and surroundings, the Constitution of Medina was declared.

It declared equal rights for ALL religions and tribes and to protect the territory from outsider invasion. Declared by the Muslim governor Muhammad.

One example is tax. For Muslims, they annually had (and still now today they do) to pay for zakah. The collected zakah is then funded to 6 Muslim groups of the territory, viz.
1) fakir (very poor)
2) miskin (poor)
3) aul (someone who does the zakah)
4) hutang (those with severe debt)
5) ibnu sabil (wanderers who are homeless)
6) fisabilillah (volunteer soldiers to protect the territory and all the religious tribes within).

Those who are not in any one of the six above are required to pay tax (zakah).

For non-Muslims (i.e. Christians, Jews, Druze, Polytheists) they are not allowed to pay zakah, but its equivalent tax which is jizyah. The tax are of equivalent amount to zakah with the exception that the funds go to the non-Muslim very poor, poor, jizyah, those in severe debt, wanderers, and volunteer soldiers to protect the Medina-Mecca territory. The non-Muslim volunteer soldiers are called dhimmis and they are exempted from tax.

In general, the order of the Medina constitution is protection of all Medina and Meccan populace from external harm. Even because of the Constitution that Mohammad’s staunchest (the polytheist Abu Sufian supreme commander of the Quraisy Mecca) who only intent was to kill Muhammad in their many battles were eventually pacified and became Muhammad’s ally. Muhammad had every opportunity to assign death penalty to the person (Abu Sufian) who wanted to assassinate Muhammad, but Abu Sufian was forgiven and thus the polytheist Quraisy and the monotheistic Abrahamic religions became interfaith.

The only Jews expelled from Medina Mecca and their territories were the Nadir, Qanuyna and Qurayza because they were zealots who wanted to kill the governor and all Muslims so that the land is only Jew.

Add-on fact, the word zealot is Hebrew because Jews were the first known concept of zealotry (even before Japan shinobi (ninjas) and the Arab hashashins (ie. Assassins)). The most known Jew zealots being the Sicarii who killed any Jew person against monofaith. Thousands of Jew civilians were killed by the Sicarii Jews.

During the Greco-Roman Caesarea age, many years before Islam came to be, the zealots and Sicarii were the militia (extremists) who killed civilians including moderate Jews.

The equivalent of extremists in today’s age include the Kahanist (Kach and Eyal being two of them), the Irgun, Palmach, Lehi, and earlier in the 1930s the ZFG in Nazi Germany, and the RZI in fascist Italy.

ZFG was headed by Jabotinsky who founded Betar, and RZI was headed by Weizmann who followed Jabotinsky’s Betar. Betar is pro-fascism and fascist state. Their Beitar fatigue is fascism.

Thank you for confirming that Jewish tribes were expelled.
What happened to the remaining Jewish tribes. Are they still in Arabia today

 

[BlueAnorak]

I hate this , wtf are we sending our airforce to shoot down missles for israel , us and the yanks should be saying you have done enough in gaza and if you choose to be the agressors then you shoot your own missles down , we are enabling them and the idf under that horrible leader are out of control

They can't shoot down balastic missiles they can only shoot down drones - which never arrived.

 

[The blue phantom]

Its a pity they don't guard the poor women and children in Palestine.

Weird isn't it. Missile after missile slaughtering Palistinian children yet we stand by and watch. Truly a fucked up world we live in.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Jordan gave a statement at the UN which is Arab nations are all willing to normalise ties with Israel if Israel only recognises a Palestinian state. Clearly Israel is not willing to recognise a Palestinian state and that's the problem at least in terms of peace with Arab countries and the larger international community.

This however leaves a vacuum of opposition to Israel and that vacuum has come to be occupied by extremists such as Hamas and Hezbollah. Iran has its own ideological goal to eliminate Israel and they're subsequently funding the extremists and this war. But this war is circular, Iran won't disappear and neither will Hamas or Hezbollah and especially not Israel.

Ultimately though Israel is an international state held to international standards. I totally supported Israel's right to defend itself post 7/10 but is Israel helping itself by invading and bombing innocents in Lebanon? What is the end goal other than for Israel to remain at perpetual war whilst at home it continues to slowly wipe out the Palestinians?

It has to stop now but that won't happen because again Israel does not want to recognise its sins but they have to be recognised for there to be peace. Until then the war will continue until somebody stops it or there is nobody left.

Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia etc all want peace and some have signed peace agreement with Israel.
You will notice that there has not been a single shot fired between Israel and these countries.

Israel is a peace loving nation and people. Don't take my words for it. Judge them by their actions.

For example, look at how they fight against their enemies in battle. They give advance warnings for civilians to evacuate before they attack. How many Arab countries have ever done such a thing to the civilian population during wartime?

Despite the constant rocket attack from Hamas, Israel still opened their hospitals to treat Palestinian children. Even the Hamas leader was treated of cancer in an Israeli hospital. They allowed many thousands to cross the border into Israel to work and feed their families (Egypt refused Palestinians this privilege).

Look at the war in Gaza. Many people will tell you there's genocide going on. Hamas figures stated around 40 thousand dead so far. This figure includes Hamas fighters, civilians plus people who died of natural causes. From a population of more than two million, this is not what genocide looks like. Bashar Assad murdered more than 500k people within a short period but no one accuse him of genocide.

Israel allowed food convoys into Gaza only to be snatched by Hamas. I wait for anyone to show me any country at war that allowed food into enemy territory.

These are some of the facts that drive my position. Not sound bites from the crowd.

 

[Vic]

Easy to say that now while ignoring the historic rejection of the two state solution by the Arabs of Palestine.
First the Peel commission report was rejected. Then the League of Nations recommendations was rejected. Next is the Camp David accord. Every rejection is followed with an attack on the Jewish population.

Why do we always like to place a burden on the Jewish people that no other country in the world would accept?

In the context of today, Israel traded land for peace with Egypt. No wars between these countries to date.
Israel traded land for peace with the Palestinians in Gaza. They did not get the peace they wanted. they have every right to reclaim the land they won from Egypt.

What other people had someone else's land gifted to them?

And law of conquest was ruled unlawful (in international law) just when international law was being used to gift that land to the Jewish people. And not other land in the region.