Middle East Conflict

[SWP's back]

This has played right into the Bibi the butcher’s hands. The thought of what the IDF are going to the Palestinian civilians doesn’t bare thinking about based on their history.

Which is exactly what I was saying in my first posts on the subject whilst Hamas were still executing families in the shelters.

Whoever the brain is behind these attacks is a complete and utter twunt. Yeah great he killed several hundred Jews in Israel, an attack such as this was always going to see a retaliation cost tenfold that number in innocent civilian Palestinian deaths in the coming weeks and months. That’s why I and so many others said it was all so bloody sad in the first place.

Nobody wins other than the extremist leaderships on both sides who justify their reasons for being.

 

[west didsblue]

35 kids, 3 medics and 2 journalists - But I’m sure you’ll find a way to spin it as your sort always do. You’re double standards and blatant disregard for Palestinian life is abhorrent and clear.

Then there should be an investigation into 40 potential murders and if enough evidence of intent is found the perpetrators should be charged with murder, or with manslaughter if it was down to negligence.

 

[SWP's back]

Daft post.

Ethnic cleansing means removing an ethnicity from an area.

It doesn't mean Genocide Lite. Azerbaijan just ethnically cleansed Nagarno-Karabakh of 100,000 Armenian people.

They didn't get rounded up in camps, and murdered, they just fled to Armenia by their own means when their paramilitaries were defeated.

I should have quoted the poster than had used the term genocide then.

 

[SWP's back]

I think previous experience begs to differ, they are a well trained and well armed militia, and there is a grudging respect on the Israeli side for them, a kind of stalemate exists which has worked to prevent any flare ups, the fear is they have a huge arsenal of long range missiles, and seriously the IDF would find it very difficult to fight on 3 fronts because you can guarantee if it kicks of in the north it will kick off in the west bank

They won’t last ten minutes because the US would do it’s best to ensure it’s military industrial complex is on target for expanded Christmas bonuses as much as I know you don’t think they’d get involved.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Then there should be an investigation into 40 potential murders and if enough evidence of intent is found the perpetrators should be charged with murder, or with manslaughter if it was down to negligence.

But you and me both know that would and will never happen. There’s been multiple children murdered by the IDF in the West Bank and I don't recall many if any prosecutions.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Then there should be an investigation into 40 potential murders and if enough evidence of intent is found the perpetrators should be charged with murder, or with manslaughter if it was down to negligence.

Who leads that investigation?

Where were the charges brought against the IDF for bombing children as they slept in 2014? Or when they conducted airstrikes on a busy marketplace during a ceasefire that same week?

When have Israel ever really been held accountable for their atrocities? They get away with it year after year and, again, that's why anyone with any kind of foresight could have seen an attack of this scale from Hamas would come sooner or later.

It's alright to say what "should" happen but it doesn't happen and it hasn't happened for a long time. When there's no justice to be had, people will find their own version of it.

 

[hcblue95]

Which is exactly what I was saying in my first posts on the subject whilst Hamas were still executing families in the shelters.

Whoever the brain is behind these attacks is a complete and utter twunt. Yeah great he killed several hundred Jews in Israel, an attack such as this was always going to see a retaliation cost tenfold that number in innocent civilian Palestinian deaths in the coming weeks and months. That’s why I and so many others said it was all so bloody sad in the first place.

Nobody wins other than the extremist leaderships on both sides who justify their reasons for being.

I guess it's all about escalating the violence and radicalising their own people through grief. Horrible stuff.

 

[philiph20]

But you and me both know that would and will never happen. There’s been multiple children murdered by the IDF in the West Bank and I don't recall many if any prosecutions.

Who leads that investigation?

Where were the charges brought against the IDF for bombing children as they slept in 2014? Or when they conducted airstrikes on a busy marketplace during a ceasefire that same week?

When have Israel ever really been held accountable for their atrocities? They get away with it year after year and, again, that's why anyone with any kind of foresight could have seen an attack of this scale from Hamas would come sooner or later.

It's alright to say what "should" happen but it doesn't happen and it hasn't happened for a long time. When there's no justice to be had, people will find their own version of it.

And not a word from 'sleepy Joe' and our own two twats Sunak and Keith, Hamas are rightly criticised because they are sick, twisted degenerates but it seems that odious butcher Bibi and his fellow hard right nuts have carte blanche to do as they please.

 

[halfcenturyup]

If the IDF deliberately target thousands of children then absolutely not.

Doesn't have to be deliberately targeted to be a war crime.

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

I'm usually clued up on history and geography but on this one I have no idea.

Is there an unbiased history of the region and why they are fighting I can read/watch somewhere?

Just bought this 30 minutes ago, though fuck knows when I'm going to find the time to read it.



Pretty much all the historians get accused of bias but this voluminous study has been well-received. A mate of mine who broadly sympathises with the Palestinian situation (or did before the latest set of events - haven't spoken to him recently) thought it was absolutely first-rate. It's readable too if you check out the sample pages on Amazon.

Unfortunately, it's also very expensive for a Penguin paperback. And 944 pages long.

A much shorter alternative is this book by Martin Bunton (who is unrelated to Emma as far as I know). I thought it was excellent and it has generally attracted favourable reviews.



On the ground journalism can also be informative. Though it was published more than 20 years ago, Bunton recommends Amira Hass's Drinking the Sea at Gaza: Days and Nights in Land Under Siege. I have a copy but haven't read it yet.

Lastly, Robert Fisk's Pity the Nation was a personal eye-opener for me. It's actually about the civil war in the Lebanon between 1975 and 1990. In particular, his first-hand description of the Sabra and Chatila massacre left an indelible impression.

Hope this helps.