Middle East Conflict

ChicagoBlue said:
As someone who frequently travels in and out of major European cities over time, I can only tell you what my eyes see. I have no political dog in the hunt and, speaking of tropes, I resent your EDL assertion as soon as anyone gives you their personal impression of their own experiences. Paris, Milan, Rome, Barcelona, Brussels, Amsterdam and especially Frankfurt just in recent months.

Maybe Pew Research will help with your head wobbling…

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It’s not even a contentious assertion!
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Not sure where that post went as I couldn’t find it, but having been in Brussels earlier this week, the current terrorist incident involving the murder of two Swedes in that beautiful city only serves to bolster the point that Islamic terrorism knows no borders and nowhere is safe…especially, it appears, an increasingly Muslim Europe.

Again, not a contentious issue, but a reminder that all the goodwill in the world doesn’t make it a less dangerous one!

We can champion multiCULTURALISM until we are blue in the face, but when that culture includes the radical ideology of death to those who don’t believe in the religion they practice, then “Houston, we have a problem!”
 
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ChicagoBlue said:
Not sure where that post went as I couldn’t find it, but having been in Brussels earlier this week, the current terrorist incident involving the murder of two Swedes in that beautiful city only serves to bolster the point that Islamic terrorism knows no borders and nowhere is safe…especially, it appears, an increasingly Muslim Europe.

Again, not a contentious issue, but a reminder that all the goodwill in the world doesn’t make it a less dangerous one!

We can champion multiCULTURALISM until we are blue in the face, but when that culture includes the radical ideology of death to those who don’t believe in the religion they practice, then “Houston, we have a problem!”
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Yet in America you lose more more children in mass school shootings than Europe does with Islamic terrorists, again you are mixing up rising populations with cultural change, there is no evidence of that whatsoever,
 
BringBackSwales said:
It’s a song though? Tbh Palestine has always been songs and sticks and stones against tanks and missiles
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Always? Modern Israel's largest expansion was after short wars where there were rather more sophisticated weapons than sticks and stones used against it. (I know you mean more recent stuff e.g. against illegal settlements in the West Bank.)

But there have always been Zionists with that aim. I'm not sure when Palestinians adopted the slogan "from the river to the sea" but it was in the Likud party's manifesto: "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty". (It also included "The Likud government will call on the younger generation in Israel and the dispersions to settle and help every group and individual in the task of inhabiting and cultivating the wasteland, while taking care not to dispossess anyone".)

This reflects the aim of earlier revisionist Zionists (e.g. Jabotinsky) for a Greater Israel (though what to do with the Arab population was a trickier question). In 1929 he wrote a poem that included the lines,
Though my country may be poor and small
It is mine from head to foot.
Stretching from the sea to the desert
And the Jordan, the Jordan in the middle.

But added
"From the wealth of our land there shall prosper
The Arab, the Christian, and the Jew".

Likewise, Ben-Gurion in 1947 accepted partition but expected more: "
"My assumption (which is why I am a fervent proponent of a state, even though it is now linked to partition) is that a Jewish state on only part of the land is not the end but the beginning.
...

"We shall admit into the state all the Jews we can. We firmly believe that we can admit more than two million Jews. We shall build a multi-faceted Jewish economy – agricultural, industrial, and maritime. We shall organize an advanced defense force—a superior army which I have no doubt will be one of the best armies in the world. At that point I am confident that we would not fail in settling in the remaining parts of the country, through agreement and understanding with our Arab neighbors, or through some other means." (My italics)


If the Palestinian song implies a genocide of the Jews (does it?) its sentiments are reciprocated by some modern Israelis.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Not sure where that post went as I couldn’t find it, but having been in Brussels earlier this week, the current terrorist incident involving the murder of two Swedes in that beautiful city only serves to bolster the point that Islamic terrorism knows no borders and nowhere is safe…especially, it appears, an increasingly Muslim Europe.

Again, not a contentious issue, but a reminder that all the goodwill in the world doesn’t make it a less dangerous one!

We can champion multiCULTURALISM until we are blue in the face, but when that culture includes the radical ideology of death to those who don’t believe in the religion they practice, then “Houston, we have a problem!”
Click to expand...

Ducado said:
Yet in America you lose more more children in mass school shootings than Europe does with Islamic terrorists, again you are mixing up rising populations with cultural change, there is no evidence of that whatsoever,
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What are the chances that ChicagoBlue is unaware of this crime that happened in Chicago yesterday? 6 year old boy stabbed 26 times because he was Palestinian.

Odd that he didn't mention something that happened so close to home, but it shaken up by something that happened in Brussels. Doesn't fit the narrative he's pushing I suppose.


www.forbes.com

Biden Condemns ‘Horrific Act Of Hate’ After 6-Year-Old Palestinian-American Is Stabbed To Death In Illinois

The six-year-old child and his mother—both Palestinian-Americans—were stabbed by their landlord in a hate crime that authorities said was linked to the Israel-Hamas conflict.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com


In a statement on Sunday, Will County Sheriff's Office said they had arrested 71-year-old Joseph Czuba for allegedly stabbing the six-year-old and his mother—who is severely injured but expected to survive—in Plainfield, Illinois on Saturday afternoon.

Czuba was the victims’ landlord, police said.

The police said the victims were attacked “due to them being Muslim and the ongoing Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas and the Israelis.”
 
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Ducado said:
We seem to be back and forth here, I think everyone can agree the Hamas attack on ordinary civilians was a barbaric tragedy and Israel has a right to defend itself

But to what degree? Does the attack give the Israelis cart blanch on the people of Gaza?

I’ve heard the argument from Israelis that the US and it’s allies almost destroyed Mosel in Iraq and destroyed Isis, I really don’t think the two situations are comparable, for a start Isis was more of an insurgent movement rather than a liberation movement as most Palestinian groups class themselves

Can everyone agree that killing non combatants is wrong and is counter productive

Can we also agree that there has been a rather brutal occupation of the West Bank and other territories and ordinary Palestinians have got the shitty end of stick, they have been cursed with bad leadership unable to compromise

A starting point for is both population should be able to live in peace in their own states can every one agree with that?
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I'd love to agree with that infact at times I've lived through it , however it seems lightyears away right now and it's so sad
 
domalino said:
What are the chances that ChicagoBlue is unaware of this crime that happened in Chicago yesterday? 6 year old boy stabbed 26 times because he was Palestinian.

Odd that he didn't mention it.


www.forbes.com

Biden Condemns ‘Horrific Act Of Hate’ After 6-Year-Old Palestinian-American Is Stabbed To Death In Illinois

The six-year-old child and his mother—both Palestinian-Americans—were stabbed by their landlord in a hate crime that authorities said was linked to the Israel-Hamas conflict.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com


In a statement on Sunday, Will County Sheriff's Office said they had arrested 71-year-old Joseph Czuba for allegedly stabbing the six-year-old and his mother—who is severely injured but expected to survive—in Plainfield, Illinois on Saturday afternoon.

Czuba was the victims’ landlord, police said.

The police said the victims were attacked “due to them being Muslim and the ongoing Middle Eastern conflict involving Hamas and the Israelis.”
Click to expand...
patch.com

Illinois Child Killer Influenced By Conservative Talk Radio: Prosecutor

Plainfield murder defendant Joseph Czuba told his wife there was an event that would occur on Oct. 14, a Will County prosecutor revealed.
patch.com patch.com
 
KS55 said:
Funny how terrorist leaders are always somewhere else. Never on the front line while telling their troops to achieve immortal happiness by dying for the cause.
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Don't remember seeing Bush and Blair leading the troops in Iraq, or Nixon and Johnson fighting the Vietcong, or Putin shelling the Ukrainians, or Asquith going over the top at the battle of the Somme, we could go on.
Why a different standard for the Hamas political leadership?
 
All these lunatics are empowered and emboldened by old wanker politicians/religious charlatans and extremist, hate-peddling media shitheads.
 
Bluemoon_420 said:
The Hasbara machine is in overdrive. They’re basically web scraping pro-Palestinian LinkedIn posts to doxx or contact their employers. You really can't be seen to be pro-Palestinian anything…

https://anti-israel-detector.vercel.app/
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It's truly bonkers, I picked one at random, check out the last post here...

Anti-Israel Detector

Live compilation of the anti-israel sentiment of the employees of different companies
anti-israel-detector.vercel.app anti-israel-detector.vercel.app
 
Ducado said:
I am really at a loss as to the war aims of Israel, in order to defeat Hamas they are going to have to go in very heavy and be prepared for a long urban conflict, but Hamas is like Hydra it will just pop up again and again as long as the conditions are ripe for it, so they either have to empty Gaza of it's population, which the Americans have told them not to even think about, or occupy it, which is going to be no fun for them and it will further isolate Israel, there is also the risk of further escalation in the north and the West Bank, this might be the reason a ground offensive has not happened, because they don't have a clue what to do after it's finished and also if it kicks off in the north they don't have the resources or man power to fight a war on two fronts
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After Hamas attacked Israel with such barbarity, I really believe they have put Israel in a lose, lose situation. Israel had to respond such was the brutality of the attack, but I can't help but think they are walking into a very well planned trap, not just in Gaza, and not just militarily but diplomatically as well.
 
blueinsa said:
If you was dealing with civilised people, yes but Hamas are not civilised people.

If you can tell me how Israel should start to negotiate with an organisation that has its stated aims of the destruction of the state of Israel and that all Jews are legitimate targets and so soon after one of the worlds biggest terrorist attacks then I’m all ears?

How do you even begin to talk to these people?
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I think the bigger question is why did Israel facilitate promote, encourage, finance and nurture an organisation with the stated aims of the destruction of the state of Israel?
I think it's a question more of the Israeli public should be asking.
 
blueinsa said:
If you was dealing with civilised people, yes but Hamas are not civilised people.

If you can tell me how Israel should start to negotiate with an organisation that has its stated aims of the destruction of the state of Israel and that all Jews are legitimate targets and so soon after one of the worlds biggest terrorist attacks then I’m all ears?

How do you even begin to talk to these people?
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Absolutely correct -there’s no negotiating with a Death Cult like Hamas (or their fellow travellers ISIS)
 
Can we please keep the discussion regarding the incident in Brussels in the thread below? This thread is busy enough as it is.

Thanks

forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk

Shooting in Brussels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67129117 Please don't post any videos of the incident
forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk
 
lloydie said:
It's truly bonkers, I picked one at random, check out the last post here...

Anti-Israel Detector

Live compilation of the anti-israel sentiment of the employees of different companies
anti-israel-detector.vercel.app anti-israel-detector.vercel.app
Click to expand...
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but sadly I’m not and just reaffirms how desperate they are to suppress support for the Palestinian’s.

There would be only one narrative we’d be getting if it wasn’t for independent journalists on the internet and social media. The tide is changing in peoples opinions and it’s unlike anything we’ve ever seen before.

Their lobbyists and army of hasbara trolls can spurn out all the bullshit they want, but the world is slowly waking up to see them for who and what they really are.
 
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