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Milner [Merged]
- Thread starter Lmarkham-blueblood
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C_T_I_D said:crystal_mais said:I think he will be a quality signing for us..
lets say if Mourinho would have been manager and wanted him, would people still question it..
Yes. Just because we'd have a manager of superior reputation in the game, it wouldn't alter my opinion that James Milner is an average player who had a good season just like Stephen Ireland did in the season of 08/09. Every player is prone to it, remember Jaun Pablo Angel scoring 23 goals for Aston Villa one season and Arsenal were after him? He done it for one season and now he's in America.
I'm sorry but I just don't rate him. If he comes then I'll support him, but I just don't see what anyone sees in him. If he was moving to Spurs / Liverpool then we wouldn't be arsed either way and we wouldn't be throwing our toys out of the pram something stupid would we?
He's a "take him or leave him" player and nothing to get excited about.
without you knowing it you have hit the nail on the head with that last sentence,we aint buying him to excite us,we have other players to do that.
Blue Phil said:The way you make it sound is that Milner has been stedily getting better each year. TBH i think he was average untill he played CM this year for Villa, let's face it his price has ballooned because of one good season, last summer his value was probably 16 million, A.J has had half a brilliant season so i don't see the problem.Neville Kneville said:If he'd been playing in the Prem for a few years & getting better each season, become an England regular, voted young player of the year & City wanted to sign him, he would cost that much. Ferdinand was £30m all those years ago. It's the premuim for young English Premier League players. The new rules will make it worse if they remain.
We already know that English players are overvalued. If we look at Milner's Senior club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2002–2004 Leeds United 48 (5)
2003 → Swindon Town (loan) 6 (2)
2004–2008 Newcastle United 94 (6)
2005–2006 → Aston Villa (loan) 27 (1)
2008– Aston Villa 72 (10)
He has scored a total of 24 goals in 247 senior appearances or just under 1 goal in every 10 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2001–2002 England U16 6 (5)
2002–2003 England U17 11 (8)
2003 England U19 1 (0)
2003–2004 England U20 6 (4)
2004–2009 England U21 46 (9)
2009– England 11 (0)
Which makes 26 goals in 81 appearances (none at the senior level).
In contrast, Ireland has the following club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2005– Manchester City 138 (16)
That's 16 goals in 138 appearances are slightly over 1 goal for every 9 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2005 Republic of Ireland U21 1 (0)
2006–2007 Republic of Ireland 6 (4)
That's 4 goals in 7 games for his national teams.
The reality of the situation is that outside of last year, Milner hasn't done anything more significant than Ireland has. He did fuck all in his previous stints to justify a transfer fee in the same region as David Villa, while our fans rate Stevie at £5 million or less in some cases. Doesn't make sense at all. Even Mancini has stated that he thinks Milner is a £10m player.
"There are two or three strikers that we could go for, but it is the same situation as it is with James Milner. First there is the price and then it depends if the players want to change team. Until today, Liverpool haven't bought many players."
Aston Villa midfielder James Milner continues to interest Mancini but he insists the club will not be held to ransom.
"When Manchester City enquire about a £10million player, the club asks for £20million. That is not good for us," said Mancini.
"James is still a player who interests us but only at the right price."
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/premierleague/story/City-chief-admits-interest-in-Torres
Cannot see how people on here say anything up to £30m is reasonable. I'd rather us go for West Brom's Graham Dorrans who the same height and build, is a year younger, scored as many goals and would be loads cheaper. Just because we have money is no reason to spend it stupidly on players. People complain about the £18m payed for RSC but he was already more established than Milner when we bought him for half the price. We should've walked away from this deal when the initial £20m was turned down. We were already getting hosed at that amount.
Milner has developed and improved as a player. The most relevant season is his last season
You can't use his lifetime stats to judge the player as he is now. If you could then Michael Owen would be a favourite for the golden boot
Milner is a driving midfielder with a great cross - which saw him to 3rd in the assists table. You need players like Milner. It's not clever to compare and contrast to different types of midfielder like Ozil or Ireland
You can't use his lifetime stats to judge the player as he is now. If you could then Michael Owen would be a favourite for the golden boot
Milner is a driving midfielder with a great cross - which saw him to 3rd in the assists table. You need players like Milner. It's not clever to compare and contrast to different types of midfielder like Ozil or Ireland
kippax23 said:We all got excited about a dick from brazil who told us to f off I know which I would rather have
Love him or hate him, he started the new era which helped us to where we are today.
leewill31 said:C_T_I_D said:Yes. Just because we'd have a manager of superior reputation in the game, it wouldn't alter my opinion that James Milner is an average player who had a good season just like Stephen Ireland did in the season of 08/09. Every player is prone to it, remember Jaun Pablo Angel scoring 23 goals for Aston Villa one season and Arsenal were after him? He done it for one season and now he's in America.
I'm sorry but I just don't rate him. If he comes then I'll support him, but I just don't see what anyone sees in him. If he was moving to Spurs / Liverpool then we wouldn't be arsed either way and we wouldn't be throwing our toys out of the pram something stupid would we?
He's a "take him or leave him" player and nothing to get excited about.
without you knowing it you have hit the nail on the head with that last sentence,we aint buying him to excite us,we have other players to do that.
we have the flair players now but we also need the grafters..
macmanson said:Blue Phil said:The way you make it sound is that Milner has been stedily getting better each year. TBH i think he was average untill he played CM this year for Villa, let's face it his price has ballooned because of one good season, last summer his value was probably 16 million, A.J has had half a brilliant season so i don't see the problem.
We already know that English players are overvalued. If we look at Milner's Senior club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2002–2004 Leeds United 48 (5)
2003 → Swindon Town (loan) 6 (2)
2004–2008 Newcastle United 94 (6)
2005–2006 → Aston Villa (loan) 27 (1)
2008– Aston Villa 72 (10)
He has scored a total of 24 goals in 247 senior appearances or just under 1 goal in every 10 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2001–2002 England U16 6 (5)
2002–2003 England U17 11 (8)
2003 England U19 1 (0)
2003–2004 England U20 6 (4)
2004–2009 England U21 46 (9)
2009– England 11 (0)
Which makes 26 goals in 81 appearances (none at the senior level).
In contrast, Ireland has the following club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2005– Manchester City 138 (16)
That's 16 goals in 138 appearances are slightly over 1 goal for every 9 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2005 Republic of Ireland U21 1 (0)
2006–2007 Republic of Ireland 6 (4)
That's 4 goals in 7 games for his national teams.
thats hard to argue with really.
though it should also include completed passes etc. to open it up a bit.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:00 pm --<br /><br />
macmanson said:Blue Phil said:The way you make it sound is that Milner has been stedily getting better each year. TBH i think he was average untill he played CM this year for Villa, let's face it his price has ballooned because of one good season, last summer his value was probably 16 million, A.J has had half a brilliant season so i don't see the problem.
We already know that English players are overvalued. If we look at Milner's Senior club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2002–2004 Leeds United 48 (5)
2003 → Swindon Town (loan) 6 (2)
2004–2008 Newcastle United 94 (6)
2005–2006 → Aston Villa (loan) 27 (1)
2008– Aston Villa 72 (10)
He has scored a total of 24 goals in 247 senior appearances or just under 1 goal in every 10 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2001–2002 England U16 6 (5)
2002–2003 England U17 11 (8)
2003 England U19 1 (0)
2003–2004 England U20 6 (4)
2004–2009 England U21 46 (9)
2009– England 11 (0)
Which makes 26 goals in 81 appearances (none at the senior level).
In contrast, Ireland has the following club stats:
Senior career*
Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2005– Manchester City 138 (16)
That's 16 goals in 138 appearances are slightly over 1 goal for every 9 appearances.
International stats:
National team‡
2005 Republic of Ireland U21 1 (0)
2006–2007 Republic of Ireland 6 (4)
That's 4 goals in 7 games for his national teams.
thats hard to argue with really.
though it should also include completed passes etc. to open it up a bit.
Marvin said:Milner has developed and improved as a player. The most relevant season is his last season
You can't use his lifetime stats to judge the player as he is now. If you could then Michael Owen would be a favourite for the golden boot
Milner is a driving midfielder with a great cross - which saw him to 3rd in the assists table. You need players like Milner. It's not clever to compare and contrast to different types of midfielder like Ozil or Ireland
I would make the same argument of Ireland as well though. He has developed and improved as a player with his best season in the 2008/2009 season with 9G/9A which was an improvement on the 4G/3A he had in the 2007/2008 season. He started the 2009/2010 season with 2G and 2A rather quickly but then fell off form after the dizzy spell and never really got a good run in the team after that.
Again, you haven't answered the question of why we "need" someone like Milner. He's not a different player than Ireland to be honest. Milner is a 5'7", 153 pound centre midfielder. Ireland is 5'9", 150 pound centre midfielder. They are both 24. They have a relatively close goal per game ratio. I can't think of a more apples to apples comparison than the 2 of them. So rather than say something generic with no proof like "Milner is a different player than them" why don't you come up with a credible argument that makes Milner worth up to 3 times as much as Stevie.
persvenality cult
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I still like him. sure, he's not 12m more talented than steven ireland. 25m is pretty crazy but unlike jolean last year, I can see that as a whole package, there probably isn't another player available for less, who ticks all the boxes. so there is your 'value'.
stamina and good crossing is a pretty rare, (and very useful) combination. plus he can do it off either foot. his touch is good, he has a few tricks and just enough pace. he has no real weakness whatsoever, save not being as fast as bellamy or as tricky as robinho. his workrate, mentality and match craft are superb, despite only being 24 he's got 7 seasons under his belt, form has had ups and downs but the downs are hardly worth talking about, he's been a stand out player in every team he's played for, never let anyone down, never had a dreadful spell. little by little he's asserted himself on the english game.
he's still more talented with the ball at his feet than many on here appear to think. he is competent in every aspect of midfield play, he's learned to apply himself consistently. he'll do whatever job you ask of him, to the upmost, week after week. he's young, and is still developing. crucially, he counts towards the magic eight, and can do any number of jobs very well indeed.
he helps squeeze as much usefullness out of that 25 as possible. adaptable english players of the required standard like him, are like hen's teeth.
he'll come in and play on the right of the diamond. or the left. we have good defensive minded midfielders but not enough to sit on either side of the midfield. or he'll fill in at the tip. it doesn't matter, he has the right balance of skills for any of those roles. that's why we're still after him. yes, the money is crazy, but whilst Ireland doesn't like playing on the left or right of a narrow midfield, whilst the likes of ozil are only really suited to playing in the hole, this guy can and will do 'the dirty work'.
stamina and good crossing is a pretty rare, (and very useful) combination. plus he can do it off either foot. his touch is good, he has a few tricks and just enough pace. he has no real weakness whatsoever, save not being as fast as bellamy or as tricky as robinho. his workrate, mentality and match craft are superb, despite only being 24 he's got 7 seasons under his belt, form has had ups and downs but the downs are hardly worth talking about, he's been a stand out player in every team he's played for, never let anyone down, never had a dreadful spell. little by little he's asserted himself on the english game.
he's still more talented with the ball at his feet than many on here appear to think. he is competent in every aspect of midfield play, he's learned to apply himself consistently. he'll do whatever job you ask of him, to the upmost, week after week. he's young, and is still developing. crucially, he counts towards the magic eight, and can do any number of jobs very well indeed.
he helps squeeze as much usefullness out of that 25 as possible. adaptable english players of the required standard like him, are like hen's teeth.
he'll come in and play on the right of the diamond. or the left. we have good defensive minded midfielders but not enough to sit on either side of the midfield. or he'll fill in at the tip. it doesn't matter, he has the right balance of skills for any of those roles. that's why we're still after him. yes, the money is crazy, but whilst Ireland doesn't like playing on the left or right of a narrow midfield, whilst the likes of ozil are only really suited to playing in the hole, this guy can and will do 'the dirty work'.
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