NHS Strike

[G-Star Medium Rare]

That Sunday working is paid at a 60% premium rate in the NHS is indicative of the relatively generous terms and conditions that still exist in much of the public sector and which no longer exist in much of the private sector.

Many NHS staff are under the mistaken impression that they are badly done to because things are not quite so rosy for them as they once were, but if they ever had to work for the average private firm they'd get the shock of their lives to see what terms and conditions most taxpayers now have to put up with at work while they earn the money that is taxed to pay for the NHS.

This is shockingly narrow-minded view.
The average tax-paying private sector worker has no clue of the conditions NHS workers have to deal with on a daily basis.
They have my admiration and my full support.

What a lady like way to tell him " you are talking bollocks" Ammy.
Respect

 

[nelsons willie]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQGil4z2uYE[/video]

 

[Bill]

Wasn't it for 20 mins or something. Wow, damaging. Lol.

Midwives weren't allowed to strike properly as they were that low on staff to begin with and had too many emergencies, Caring for mother and baby at the forefront of their minds.

Hardly a piss taking situation in my opinion.

dont like strikers, any proffession. you have a job so stfu and get back to work. be grateful. i realise this was a token gesture so i'll let them off.

 

[urban genie]

As someone who worked the first 11 years of my working life in the private sector and the last 7 in the public sector I can say with some certainty that the prolonged myth of a better, easier and pampered life within the public sector is bollocks. Apart from getting bank holidays off and being offered a decent pension scheme, then there is not much difference, I still don't get overtime pay even when it's worked, I am under contract to deliver and I am under pressure to deliver with minimal staff and antiquated equipment, there in no money for investment as the budgets are cut, and pay has been frozen, I will concede that I get above minimum wage (In fact a living wage) but that should be bare minimum for all anyway.

I will admit that while in the private sector I was less likely to to moan and just get on with it as it was a case of "if you don't like it then fuck off we'll get someone else in" where I do get a helping hand when needed now

as for increments they are minor pay rises that are vetted and not given every year or to everybody like was portrayed in the coverage yesterday, and every year in the private sector I was given a small pay rise so no difference again

Pitting the public sector against the private sector is a political trick to stop all the countries workforce from standing together to demand better wages and conditions

 

[nelsons willie]

Wasn't it for 20 mins or something. Wow, damaging. Lol.

Midwives weren't allowed to strike properly as they were that low on staff to begin with and had too many emergencies, Caring for mother and baby at the forefront of their minds.

Hardly a piss taking situation in my opinion.

dont like strikers, any proffession. you have a job so stfu and get back to work. be grateful. i realise this was a token gesture so i'll let them off.

Says the man who would rather live anywhere but england if he was younger lol.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Wasn't it for 20 mins or something. Wow, damaging. Lol.

Midwives weren't allowed to strike properly as they were that low on staff to begin with and had too many emergencies, Caring for mother and baby at the forefront of their minds.

Hardly a piss taking situation in my opinion.

dont like strikers, any proffession. you have a job so stfu and get back to work. be grateful. i realise this was a token gesture so i'll let them off.

After prolonged talks and negotiation,which has proved fruitless,if not strike action....how do you then think NHS workers should tackle the issues they are fighting?

 

[metalblue]

salary info widely available on the net, for example - An Adult Nurse -

Salaries for Band 5 under the NHS Agenda for Change (AfC) Pay Rates (the entry point for graduate nurses) start at £21,388, rising to £27,901. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement.
Salaries at senior level (Bands 7-9 in the NHS) range from £30,764 - £98,453.
Comparable rates of pay exist in the private sector. Contact individual providers for details.
Payments for unsocial hours are made to NHS staff. For example, time plus 60% is paid for working on Sundays and public holidays.

Most nurses are band 5, I know Mrs MB used to get 20% and 30% enhancements when she pounded the wards as a band 5 for working unsociables and Sundays, the HCAs (band 4 and lower) got 40% and 60%. She also used to have to work either a 12 hour or 18 hour make up shift each 4 week period to make up her unpaid breaks which she rarely got to take anyway. As a specalist nurse she now has (in theory) more socialable hours so on a flat rate with no enhancements.

The problem with NHS pay is there is no significant private sector that creates natural wage inflation so like other services (police, fire service, etc) they have to force the issue. As urmston pointed out they may not be the most academic but be in no doubt these are highly skilled people who are worthy of pay to reflect the nature of their work. I'd happily pay more tax to see that.

 

[urmston]

That Sunday working is paid at a 60% premium rate in the NHS is indicative of the relatively generous terms and conditions that still exist in much of the public sector and which no longer exist in much of the private sector.

Many NHS staff are under the mistaken impression that they are badly done to because things are not quite so rosy for them as they once were, but if they ever had to work for the average private firm they'd get the shock of their lives to see what terms and conditions most taxpayers now have to put up with at work while they earn the money that is taxed to pay for the NHS.

This is shockingly narrow-minded view.
The average tax-paying private sector worker has no clue of the conditions NHS workers have to deal with on a daily basis.
They have my admiration and my full support.

You are easily shocked.

I have no doubt that some NHS staff workers have difficult and demanding jobs, but so do many in the private sector and we don't featherbed them with pay rises and fat pensions while the rest of us muddle through these austere times.

The NHS employs a million people and by and large they are paid quite well for their skills and get very good terms and conditions too.

It's about time we moved past the silly Danny Boyle Olympics uncritical praise of all NHS workers as if they are some special kind of selfless breed of person.

Much of that uncritical praise comes from NHS staff themselves, and is therefore not the most impartial of sources.

We hear many good things about the NHS, but if it really was staffed by virtual saints then we wouldn't get unfortunate phenomena like high death rates at hospitals at the weekend because the Mon - Fri 9 -5 working week is amenable to so many NHS workers, regardless of the needs of patients.

 

[stonerblue]

Wasn't it for 20 mins or something. Wow, damaging. Lol.

Not meant to be 'damaging' mate.
I think you'll find 'responsible' is the word.

Exactly, nurses are not really allowed to strike. The NMC code of conduct basically forbids them from doing so to any meaningful ends. They can picket during their (if they are lucky) 30 minute lunch break, or come in if they are on a day off. What sort of message does it send where no-one notices any difference and the government knows there is fuck all the nurses can really do about it so will continue to take the piss and we end up with a perverse situation where nurses study for 3 years, get degrees, are responsible for peoples health and wellbeing and in some case life and death decisions yet get paid significantly less than a bus driver.

Small wonder so many head to Aus where they can be paid twice as much and our gaps are being filled by Portugal's nurses who get an even worse deal.

But it's ok, we have these nice new hospitals that are already proving unfit for purpose and handing billions over to PFI for the privilege instead of paying our nurses (at least a band 5/6) a proper wage that reflects what they do for society. And don't get me started on that shambles of the first privately run NHS hospital that is Hinchingbrooke (an enforced experiment by a pro-privatisation NHS east of england). Labour, especially, but also the Tories should hang their heads in shame.

Afuckinmen to all of that.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Can you reply to my question please Urmston?

 

[urmston]

Can you reply to my question please Urmston?

I'm not really interested why some nurses are seeking alternative employment.

Nursing courses are over subscribed many times and foreign nurses are keen to work here.

There is not a shortage of nurses, or the prospect of one, and therefore no reason to put their wages up.

Even many who want to leave the job won't, because they'll soon find out that there are not many jobs out there for people of their skills and education which will bring in as good a wage and a very generous pension.

If we all got pay rises every time we got fed up at work the country would be full of people on Sergio's wages.

 

[BlueBearBoots]

Some good points made but I've always thought that the pay of any profession is down to supply and demand. Are there less young people applying to train as nurses these days? Will there come a point that the NHS is thought of so badly that there will be no new applicants and the government will have to make it much more attractive to become a nurse or paramedic etc etc ?

Tried to google but can't really find a sensible answer on numbers of applicants over the past 10 years lets say

 

[Mike N]

Not meant to be 'damaging' mate.
I think you'll find 'responsible' is the word.

Exactly, nurses are not really allowed to strike. The NMC code of conduct basically forbids them from doing so to any meaningful ends. They can picket during their (if they are lucky) 30 minute lunch break, or come in if they are on a day off. What sort of message does it send where no-one notices any difference and the government knows there is fuck all the nurses can really do about it so will continue to take the piss and we end up with a perverse situation where nurses study for 3 years, get degrees, are responsible for peoples health and wellbeing and in some case life and death decisions yet get paid significantly less than a bus driver.

Small wonder so many head to Aus where they can be paid twice as much and our gaps are being filled by Portugal's nurses who get an even worse deal.

But it's ok, we have these nice new hospitals that are already proving unfit for purpose and handing billions over to PFI for the privilege instead of paying our nurses (at least a band 5/6) a proper wage that reflects what they do for society. And don't get me started on that shambles of the first privately run NHS hospital that is Hinchingbrooke (an enforced experiment by a pro-privatisation NHS east of england). Labour, especially, but also the Tories should hang their heads in shame.

be
Afuckinmen to all of that.

Yes, the fabulous PFI! We will all paying for the next 20 odd years. As someone once described it; like paying a mortgage with a credit card.

 

[Rascal]

If anything, nurses pay could probably be reduced gradually over the next few years.

Recruitment is unlikely to be a problem as applications for nursing courses are oversubscribed many times over and the educational requirements for getting on the courses are reasonably modest. Nursing is a job which does not require a high level of intellectual ability and educational attainment and this means there will always be lots of people able to do it, and in the current economic situation where jobs are scarce that will ensure a ready supply of applicants.

It is important that public money is used wisely by the government and not used to pay staff more than the market requires.

As public employees NHS staff should realise that they need to shoulder their fair share of the economic difficulties of their employers.

At the moment they seem to be telling us that they should be insulated from these difficulties and should be able to maintain their standard of living while the rest of us tighten our belts.

Just fucking gobsmacking

 

[urmston]

Some good points made but I've always thought that the pay of any profession is down to supply and demand. Are there less young people applying to train as nurses these days? Will there come a point that the NHS is thought of so badly that there will be no new applicants and the government will have to make it much more attractive to become a nurse or paramedic etc etc ?

Tried to google but can't really find a sensible answer on numbers of applicants over the past 10 years lets say

Try here.

<a class="postlink" href="http://blog.concentra.co.uk/2013/03/20/most-competitive-university-courses-which-courses-are-the-hardest-to-get-onto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blog.concentra.co.uk/2013/03/20/ ... -get-onto/</a>


'Incredibly, the number of applications for Nursing more than doubled between 2008 and 2012.'


'Nursing 2012, Applications 212,572, Acceptance 23,836, 11.2%.'

There is a hardly a shortage of people wanting to become nurses.

In tough times loads of people always try to get into secure, state jobs like teaching and nursing because other jobs just aren't there.

An increase in wages when staff are so easy to come by would be government irresponsibility with our money.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Can you reply to my question please Urmston?

I'm not really interested why some nurses are seeking alternative employment.

Nursing courses are over subscribed many times and foreign nurses are keen to work here.

There is not a shortage of nurses, or the prospect of one, and therefore no reason to put their wages up.

Even many who want to leave the job won't, because they'll soon find out that there are not many jobs out there for people of their skills and education which will bring in as good a wage and a very generous pension.

If we all got pay rises every time we got fed up at work the country would be full of people on Sergio's wages.

I'm not talking about just nurses.The NHS encompasses many more professions,one of which,the Ambulance servce,i am in a position to comment on..... The conditions you describe are certainly not the ones experienced by the majority of paramedics working in Manchester.Most are stressed,frustrated and very unhappy, they do the job because they have an inclination towards such a role in life,however,many are now reaching a point where they are finding alternative employment as the job simply isn't worth the hassle.

I know of half a dozen,with a combined 100 yrs or so experience,that have done just that in the last 12 months.They are all happier and now receiving better pay and conditions working in the private sector.

The loser? the public imo.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

I work in the public sector..not had a rise for nearly five yrs now.

Shit happens but my theory is this..better to be in a decent job pretty well paid than to be in a shit paid job full stop.
I work sundays..saturdays..christmas days new yrs eves..in 15 yrs this will be my first xmas off.
I just get on with it..why?? My pension at the end of it.A pension that I pay neay 200 notes a month for.

Am I frustrated..damn right I am..cuts cuts cuts..people really would not believe the cold facts of it.

 

[Rascal]

.

An increase in wages when staff are so easy to come by would be government irresponsibility with our money.

So giving a tax cut to the richest was a responsible thing to do with our money?

You know all in this together stuff.


Since the bank crash of 2008 Bankers wages have risen 35% on average and Osborne flew to Brussells to protect their bonuses.


You know all in this together stuff..


I just think you are a WUM who if ever has the misfortune to have to go into hospital will have this thread emailed to the Wrad Matron :)

 

[FantasyIreland]

A pension that I pay neay 200 notes a month for.

Something that often gets 'overlooked'

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

.

An increase in wages when staff are so easy to come by would be government irresponsibility with our money.

So giving a tax cut to the richest was a responsible thing to do with our money?

You know all in this together stuff.


Since the bank crash of 2008 Bankers wages have risen 35% on average and Osborne flew to Brussells to protect their bonuses.


You know all in this together stuff..


I just think you are a WUM who if ever has the misfortune to have to go into hospital will have this thread emailed to the Wrad Matron :)

He is wumming for sure...all this gold plated pension bollocks is simply not true..you gotta pay for it over a long time..is it a good pension..yeah i suppose..gold plated it is not