Operation Overlord

[nellyonthewing]

I visited Normandy 5 years ago and its a very special experience . Imagine scaling the cliffs of Pointe du hoc with someone lobbing grenades at you, or jumping into 6 foot of freezing water laden down with kit with machine guns churning the water. I am pretty sure I'd be lying at the bottom of the landing craft refusing to get out at any price. Its the guts of these men that amazes me .The Merville Battery was an amazing demonstration of this grit where 600 British paras were tasked with capturing a system of gun emplacements but only 150 made it from the drop zones. If I'd been in charge I would have said bad luck we'll wait for re-inforcements but not the paras they stormed and captured it with heavy losses though the Germans re-occupied it later that day after the paras moved on to another objective. The movie The Longest Day was perhaps the fairest portrayal of the Allied Invasion.

 

[manclad]

The amphibious assault element was largely carried out by the British too, they are the ones who took the Americans in. It's no biggie, I don't have a problem really with that portrayal, but as a matter of historical accuracy, it was mostly the British/Commonwealth forces (i.e naval/marine) who got the Americans onto Omaha and Gold as well.

As an aside, the ones who really get ignored are the Canadians. The RCN went from nowhere to the third largest navy on the planet inside five years. Quite, quite extraordinary.

And here's your little film/television story. James Doohan - Scotty from Star Trek - was wounded by friendly fire (shot six times) in the D Day landings, losing his finger, which you can occasionally see in some scenes, though he hid it.

Gold beach was stormed by British/Commonwealth forces. The US forces came ashore on Utah and Omaha beaches.

 

[Daz_Blue]

 

[BrianW]

I have wondered over the last few days what might have been the scenario if Corbyn had been around in the late 30's - what particular stance would he have adopted. I doubt very much he would have taken up the line that Churchill thundered out!

You can pretty well answer your question by studying the Labour Party's attitude in the 1930s. They slowly moved from a policy of peace and disarmament to very strong opposition to Hitler. Their position was, if anything, more hard line than that of the Tories, who only really abandoned appeasement after Munich.

It is also well worth remembering that Churchill was a total maverick, widely despised and distrusted by large sections of even his own party. He only became PM pretty much because Halifax did not want the job and Labour were unwilling to serve in a coalition under Chamberlain, but were willing to accept Churchill. Attlee was arguably more Left than Corbyn - remember in government post war he set up the NHS and instituted a massive programme of nationalisation despite the national debt/GDP position being infinitely worse than it is at present. Only in foreign/commonwealth matters was the 1945 Labour Government to the RW of what we see now.

 

[Henkeman]

Gold beach was stormed by British/Commonwealth forces. The US forces came ashore on Utah and Omaha beaches.

No, you're misunderstanding. It's not about the troops themselves, it's about the units that got them there - the beach parties, beachmasters, naval vessels and landing craft - which were largely British for every beach. As I said above, over 3,000 of the 4,000 landing craft and crews therein were British.

 

[The Northern Baptist]

Excellent book, as is his book Berlin.

I enjoyed his catch-all Second World War book, great book to start with for anyone looking to read up on the war in general.

Another one of his I’ve read and enjoyed this year is the Spanish Civil war one.

 

[Henkeman]

I have wondered over the last few days what might have been the scenario if Corbyn had been around in the late 30's - what particular stance would he have adopted. I doubt very much he would have taken up the line that Churchill thundered out!

George Lansbury is your clue. He's one of Corbyn's heroes.

 

[manclad]

No, you're misunderstanding. It's not about the troops themselves, it's about the units that got them there - the beach parties, beachmasters, naval vessels and landing craft - which were largely British for every beach. As I said above, over 3,000 of the 4,000 landing craft and crews therein were British.

OK
I understand now. I always thought that the troops storming onto the beach would have been transported there by their own logistical forces.
It is new information for me that it was mostly done by Commonwealth forces on all 5 beaches.

 

[Henkeman]

OK
I understand now. I always thought that the troops storming onto the beach would have been transported there by their own logistical forces.
It is new information for me that it was mostly done by Commonwealth forces on all 5 beaches.

The US were fighting a rather big war in the Pacific. And (just about) at this point, the RN was the biggest navy in the world. From this point onwards, US power surpassed British in every way. Hence the original point that you can consider D Day Britain's last as a superpower.

If you want the shorthand for it, it was a British operation to get the Americans ashore, which is obviously simplistic, but gives the gist.

 

[citizenyank76]

I once asked a friend of mine who had been in in the US army, "Who was the greatest, most capable officer ever associated with the US military." He said without hesitation, "General George Marshall."

Churchill wrote this to him at the end of the war. He was truly a great man.

“It has not fallen to your lot to command the great armies. You have had to create them, organise them, and inspire them. Under your guiding hand the mighty and valiant formations which have swept across France and Germany were brought into being and perfected in an amazingly short space of time. . . . You have been the mainspring of that marvellous organisation, the Combined Chiefs of Staff, whose conduct and relationship will ever be a model for the planning and supervision of Allied and Combined operations. There has grown in my breast through all these years of mental exertion a respect and admiration for your character and massive strength which has been a real comfort to your fellow-toilers, of whom I hope it will always be recorded that I was one.” (Churchill to Marshall, May 17, 1945)