PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

gordondaviesmoustache said:
In the scheme of things, £10 million per club over a three year period isn’t an eye-watering sum.

Plus it sounds like a fabricated number to me. Be surprised it’s more than half that, which makes it about the same as the Mancini payment p.a. for each PL club.

Wonder what Pannick has billed on this job. Got to be north of a couple million quid for what will amount to about six months work in total I’d guess. Would love to see his fee note for this job.

The sols will have had to put a lot of hours in, given the amount of material being in circulation, both ways. So those billable hours won’t have come cheap.

But I’d be utterly amazed if the legal bill is even close to £200 million. In the realm of commercial disputes this one isn’t especially complex and nor did it involve any novel points of law that require forensic exploration. It’s pretty much a fact based exercise as far as I can see. It also hasn’t involved a series of appeals to higher tribunals either, unlike most litigation of repute.

So I call bullshit on that figure.
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The quoted figure was £40m for the PL around 3 months ago.
I’d guess City’s would be similar. Maybe a bit more but nowhere near £200m?
Even if you added the PL’s 4 year investigation before the charges dropped it wouldn’t come close.
 
TheGhost said:
The quoted figure was £40m for the PL around 3 months ago.
I’d guess City’s would be similar. Maybe a bit more but nowhere near £200m?
Even if you added the PL’s 4 year investigation before the charges dropped it wouldn’t come close.
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It’s a truly sad reflection on how the information space now operates that people can just make a figure up and present it as fact without any consequences.
 
'We can't see an end to this and because of escalating costs bla bla, we have decided to end the case against MCFC'

So still guilty/got away with it. No focus on why their auditors didn't pick it up on numerous occasions over ten years, and if it was not proveable, why did they continue to prosecute. I can see it happening. They will be spinning it that much they will need motion sickness tablets.
 
I asked Google Gemini AI for an overview of this thread and it came back with this.

“I don't have access to the specific, real-time content of forums like the "Blue Moon Manchester City Football forum." However, I can provide a general overview of what a thread on the topic of the Premier League charges against Manchester City would likely contain, based on publicly available information about the case.”
“A thread on this topic would likely involve a wide range of opinions and discussions among Manchester City fans. Key points of discussion would almost certainly include:

  • Club's Defense and Statements: Fans would be referencing the club's official statements, which have consistently and vehemently denied all charges. They would likely express belief in the club's position and the "irrefutable evidence" they've stated they have.
  • Criticism of the Premier League: Many fans would likely view the charges as a politically motivated attack on the club by the "establishment" or other rival clubs. They might point to the length of the investigation and the sheer number of charges as evidence of a witch hunt.
  • Legal Process and Potential Outcomes: There would be extensive discussion and speculation about the legal process, including the independent commission, the potential timeline for a verdict, and the possible sanctions. These could range from a minor points deduction or fine to more severe punishments like title stripping or even expulsion from the league, although many fans would dismiss the latter as highly unlikely.
  • Comparison to Other Cases: Fans would likely draw parallels to other clubs' recent breaches of financial rules, such as Everton and Nottingham Forest, and debate whether the potential punishment for City would be consistent or disproportionately harsh.
  • UEFA and CAS: The thread would probably reference the club's previous case with UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), where the club's two-year ban was overturned. This would be used as a point of optimism, suggesting that the current charges will also be dismissed.
  • Internal Division: While many fans would be united in their support of the club, there might also be some internal debate or frustration. Some might express concern about the seriousness of the charges or question the club's legal strategy.”

No mention of corned beef.
 
TheGhost said:
I asked Google Gemini AI for an overview of this thread and it came back with this.

“I don't have access to the specific, real-time content of forums like the "Blue Moon Manchester City Football forum." However, I can provide a general overview of what a thread on the topic of the Premier League charges against Manchester City would likely contain, based on publicly available information about the case.”
“A thread on this topic would likely involve a wide range of opinions and discussions among Manchester City fans. Key points of discussion would almost certainly include:

  • Club's Defense and Statements: Fans would be referencing the club's official statements, which have consistently and vehemently denied all charges. They would likely express belief in the club's position and the "irrefutable evidence" they've stated they have.
  • Criticism of the Premier League: Many fans would likely view the charges as a politically motivated attack on the club by the "establishment" or other rival clubs. They might point to the length of the investigation and the sheer number of charges as evidence of a witch hunt.
  • Legal Process and Potential Outcomes: There would be extensive discussion and speculation about the legal process, including the independent commission, the potential timeline for a verdict, and the possible sanctions. These could range from a minor points deduction or fine to more severe punishments like title stripping or even expulsion from the league, although many fans would dismiss the latter as highly unlikely.
  • Comparison to Other Cases: Fans would likely draw parallels to other clubs' recent breaches of financial rules, such as Everton and Nottingham Forest, and debate whether the potential punishment for City would be consistent or disproportionately harsh.
  • UEFA and CAS: The thread would probably reference the club's previous case with UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), where the club's two-year ban was overturned. This would be used as a point of optimism, suggesting that the current charges will also be dismissed.
  • Internal Division: While many fans would be united in their support of the club, there might also be some internal debate or frustration. Some might express concern about the seriousness of the charges or question the club's legal strategy.”

No mention of corned beef.
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Or muffin vs barm.

Google is fucking useless.....
 
TheGhost said:
I asked Google Gemini AI for an overview of this thread and it came back with this.

“I don't have access to the specific, real-time content of forums like the "Blue Moon Manchester City Football forum." However, I can provide a general overview of what a thread on the topic of the Premier League charges against Manchester City would likely contain, based on publicly available information about the case.”
“A thread on this topic would likely involve a wide range of opinions and discussions among Manchester City fans. Key points of discussion would almost certainly include:

  • Club's Defense and Statements: Fans would be referencing the club's official statements, which have consistently and vehemently denied all charges. They would likely express belief in the club's position and the "irrefutable evidence" they've stated they have.
  • Criticism of the Premier League: Many fans would likely view the charges as a politically motivated attack on the club by the "establishment" or other rival clubs. They might point to the length of the investigation and the sheer number of charges as evidence of a witch hunt.
  • Legal Process and Potential Outcomes: There would be extensive discussion and speculation about the legal process, including the independent commission, the potential timeline for a verdict, and the possible sanctions. These could range from a minor points deduction or fine to more severe punishments like title stripping or even expulsion from the league, although many fans would dismiss the latter as highly unlikely.
  • Comparison to Other Cases: Fans would likely draw parallels to other clubs' recent breaches of financial rules, such as Everton and Nottingham Forest, and debate whether the potential punishment for City would be consistent or disproportionately harsh.
  • UEFA and CAS: The thread would probably reference the club's previous case with UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), where the club's two-year ban was overturned. This would be used as a point of optimism, suggesting that the current charges will also be dismissed.
  • Internal Division: While many fans would be united in their support of the club, there might also be some internal debate or frustration. Some might express concern about the seriousness of the charges or question the club's legal strategy.”

No mention of corned beef.
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The **** can’t spell defence right either.
 
mattcity5 said:
Cool, cheers. Pretty neutral questions overall. Whenever anyone posts ai output I'm always left wondering what the question was - there's so many different ways things can be worded and it's easy to get different results.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with your take that you can manipulate the outcome but I was just asking questions that followed the answers.

Once you start with what’s her role & would she have knowledge, it’s blatantly obvious she did. When you then consider her role & the decisions they keep taking, even a computer worked it out ;)

Now if I got that answer from 4 questions, imagine Pannick over a month……
 
TheGhost said:
I asked Google Gemini AI for an overview of this thread and it came back with this.

“I don't have access to the specific, real-time content of forums like the "Blue Moon Manchester City Football forum." However, I can provide a general overview of what a thread on the topic of the Premier League charges against Manchester City would likely contain, based on publicly available information about the case.”
“A thread on this topic would likely involve a wide range of opinions and discussions among Manchester City fans. Key points of discussion would almost certainly include:

  • Club's Defense and Statements: Fans would be referencing the club's official statements, which have consistently and vehemently denied all charges. They would likely express belief in the club's position and the "irrefutable evidence" they've stated they have.
  • Criticism of the Premier League: Many fans would likely view the charges as a politically motivated attack on the club by the "establishment" or other rival clubs. They might point to the length of the investigation and the sheer number of charges as evidence of a witch hunt.
  • Legal Process and Potential Outcomes: There would be extensive discussion and speculation about the legal process, including the independent commission, the potential timeline for a verdict, and the possible sanctions. These could range from a minor points deduction or fine to more severe punishments like title stripping or even expulsion from the league, although many fans would dismiss the latter as highly unlikely.
  • Comparison to Other Cases: Fans would likely draw parallels to other clubs' recent breaches of financial rules, such as Everton and Nottingham Forest, and debate whether the potential punishment for City would be consistent or disproportionately harsh.
  • UEFA and CAS: The thread would probably reference the club's previous case with UEFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), where the club's two-year ban was overturned. This would be used as a point of optimism, suggesting that the current charges will also be dismissed.
  • Internal Division: While many fans would be united in their support of the club, there might also be some internal debate or frustration. Some might express concern about the seriousness of the charges or question the club's legal strategy.”

No mention of corned beef.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Again everybody is focusing on punishment for City if the charges are proved. Can you just ask Chat, I'm not IT savvy, a one fingered typist, where the PL, their staff and other clubs who were behind the charges will be punished if City are found not to have breached these 115 regulations.
 
I get the need for confidentiality but this process lacks transparency. How can anybody start a process without having a plan or a feel for key dates in that process. Yes, as a former IT project Manager, I know that dates can, and do move, but at the moment it feels like this has been swallowed in to a black hole and there is no sign of it ending

The Premier league could manage expectations by saying something like we expect a decision by such and such a date and then giving an update if the report / decision is going to be delayed without explaining why the delay.

It's what happens in the real world so why is law so different.

Isn't some of this just common sense or am I living on a different planet.
 
Asa's left peg said:
'We can't see an end to this and because of escalating costs bla bla, we have decided to end the case against MCFC'

So still guilty/got away with it. No focus on why their auditors didn't pick it up on numerous occasions over ten years, and if it was not proveable, why did they continue to prosecute. I can see it happening. They will be spinning it that much they will need motion sickness tablets.
Click to expand...

Would we have to agree to be released at this stage?
 
bluemanchester said:
Thanks for that. Again everybody is focusing on punishment for City if the charges are proved. Can you just ask Chat, I'm not IT savvy, a one fingered typist, where the PL, their staff and other clubs who were behind the charges will be punished if City are found not to have breached these 115 regulations.
Click to expand...

Here’s the question - Will the PL, their staff and other clubs who were behind the 115 charges against Manchester will be punished if City are found not to have breached these 115 regulations?

The answer-

The situation regarding the potential consequences for the Premier League and other clubs if Manchester City are found not to have breached the 115 regulations is complex and has been a subject of much discussion.

There is no clear-cut rule in the Premier League handbook that outlines a specific punishment for the league or other clubs if a club is found not guilty of charges. However, a not-guilty verdict would likely have significant repercussions.

Here's a breakdown of the potential outcomes:

  • Impact on the Premier League: A not-guilty verdict, especially on the most serious charges, would be a major blow to the Premier League's authority and credibility. The league has spent years and a significant amount of money on the investigation and legal proceedings. A loss would essentially mean they failed to prove their case, which could lead to calls for resignations at the highest levels of the organization, including CEO Richard Masters.
  • Legal Action from Manchester City: Manchester City has consistently maintained its innocence and has a history of fighting such charges. If they are fully vindicated, it's possible they could pursue legal action against the Premier League for damages, although some reports suggest this is unlikely. The legal costs for both sides have been "eye-watering," reportedly topping £200 million over five years, and it's a financial burden that could be a point of contention.
  • Other Clubs: While other clubs have not been directly involved in the legal proceedings, many have been vocal in their desire for a resolution. A not-guilty verdict could lead to significant backlash from these clubs. There is also the possibility of legal challenges from other clubs against the Premier League if they feel the process was mishandled or that they have suffered financially as a result of the lengthy saga.
The lack of a specific "sanctions grid" for financial rule breaches means the independent commission has wide-ranging powers to decide on punishments. This ambiguity also extends to the potential fallout if the charges are not proven. Ultimately, a not-guilty verdict would likely be a vindication for Manchester City and a major crisis for the Premier League, with the full extent of the fallout yet to be seen.
 
kippaxwarrior said:
Or muffin vs barm.

Google is fucking useless.....
Click to expand...
Google Gemini correctly says BARM

This is a classic question, and the answer depends entirely on where you are! What you call that small, round, bread-like item is a major point of regional difference, particularly in the UK.

  • In most of the UK, especially in the south, it's called a muffin. A "muffin" can refer to both the sweet, cupcake-like baked good and the flatter, savory English muffin.
  • In parts of Greater Manchester and Lancashire, the same item is often called a barm cake or simply a barm.
  • In other parts of the North of England, you'll hear it called a bun, a cob, or a teacake.
So, if you're in Manchester and ask for a sausage muffin, you might get a confused look and be called ‘a fucking Yonner’. But if you ask for a sausage barm, you'll be speaking the local language!
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
In the scheme of things, £10 million per club over a three year period isn’t an eye-watering sum.

Plus it sounds like a fabricated number to me. Be surprised it’s more than half that, which makes it about the same as the Mancini payment p.a. for each PL club.

Wonder what Pannick has billed on this job. Got to be north of a couple million quid for what will amount to about six months work in total I’d guess. Would love to see his fee note for this job.

The sols will have had to put a lot of hours in, given the amount of material being in circulation, both ways. So those billable hours won’t have come cheap.

But I’d be utterly amazed if the legal bill is even close to £200 million. In the realm of commercial disputes this one isn’t especially complex and nor did it involve any novel points of law that require forensic exploration. It’s pretty much a fact based exercise as far as I can see. It also hasn’t involved a series of appeals to higher tribunals either, unlike most litigation of repute.

So I call bullshit on that figure.
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Given it came out of Levy’s mouth we can automatically assume it’s a lie mate.
 
mattcity5 said:
I guess this rule might mean that if they need arbitration again, it'll be before a panel of cheap Muppets with nothing better to do...
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It would be funny as fuck if the expensive lawyers that the EPL have used, turned round and said they couldn't clear their schedule for the next 12 months for such a frivolous case
 
Asa's left peg said:
'We can't see an end to this and because of escalating costs bla bla, we have decided to end the case against MCFC'

So still guilty/got away with it. No focus on why their auditors didn't pick it up on numerous occasions over ten years, and if it was not proveable, why did they continue to prosecute. I can see it happening. They will be spinning it that much they will need motion sickness tablets.
Click to expand...
They’re not going to “end the case” as the evidence has been heard and the hearing concluded. There will need to be an outcome published.

We are either fully cleared or are found to have breached some rules.
 
The legal costs for the PL don't come out of prize money but the clubs still end up being worse off.

At the start of each season the PL puts around £10 million (guess) aside for unforeseen costs which may crop up in the following year. The legal expenses come out of that.

Usually, at the end of the year, the clubs get a windfall of say £500,000 each from the pot due to the fact that nothing cropped up. For the last few years there hasn’t been any/much windfall for the clubs because the PL has pissed it up the wall trying to enforce unlawful rules and chasing a handful of clubs around (mainly us)

I think I’ve remembered that right but I could be wrong.
 
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