Player topic: Jesus Navas (2014/15)

[lasereyes]

Decent squad player. Somehow has become an automatic starter. That's the issue. Should be used as an impact sub when defenders are tiring. Away to Fulham last season the perfect example.

 

[TrueBlueMike]

Navas for me is too right sided and only suited to an all out attacking 4-4-2, as shown when we were playing Aguero / Negredo last year

We play much better in a 4-2-3-1 with Nasri / Silva / Milner / Aguero all rotating and letting zaba on the right stretch the lines and getting in behind.

Navas on the right side of a 3 I feel always gets in Zaba's way and doesnt let him make those runs in behind or diagonal runs that stretch the dlines and pulls defenders out of position.

 

[Dax777]

He's not even close to being good enough for Manchester City & he's extremely fortunate to find himself playing us. To be honest, I think he would even struggle at a mid table club.

He doesn't score goals and he doesn't create them. That's a big problem for us when we have injuries or other players aren't on form.

It's not his fault he isn't good enough though. He always gives 100% and works hard to help out the fullback.

He has our most assists in the league this season, and has created more chances than any of our other players too.

Folks here are never persuaded by facts, just their opinion. Of course he is pretty good. But hey wait till we lose him. Folks are complaining about his crossing not getting to the strikers, forgetting there is something to be said for gettin in those positions to start with. He attempted 12 crosses, Milner on the opposite side had 2. Simply put, he was the only offensive outlet. Only one able to get open in the condensed areas. And, yes his crosses were poor on some of the occasions on others there simply was no outlet. He ran hard, defended well, and made himself open as an option consistently. It's no surprise he was the only player on our team possessing the ball in dangerous areas until Jove came on. But let's call blame him and ignore those who didn't even make an appearance in spite of being on the field.

He had a bad game yesterday, yet he was still heads above anyone not named Clichy or Zab. So why is he being the scapegoat?

 

[pudge]

He's not even close to being good enough for Manchester City & he's extremely fortunate to find himself playing us. To be honest, I think he would even struggle at a mid table club.

He doesn't score goals and he doesn't create them. That's a big problem for us when we have injuries or other players aren't on form.

It's not his fault he isn't good enough though. He always gives 100% and works hard to help out the fullback.

He has our most assists in the league this season, and has created more chances than any of our other players too.

Folks here are never persuaded by facts, just their opinion. Of course he is pretty good. But hey wait till we lose him. Folks are complaining about his crossing not getting to the strikers, forgetting there is something to be said for gettin in those positions to start with. He attempted 12 crosses, Milner on the opposite side had 2. Simply put, he was the only offensive outlet. Only one able to get open in the condensed areas. And, yes his crosses were poor on some of the occasions on others there simply was no outlet. He ran hard, defended well, and made himself open as an option consistently. It's no surprise he was the only player on our team possessing the ball in dangerous areas until Jove came on. But let's call blame him and ignore those who didn't even make an appearance in spite of being on the field.

He had a bad game yesterday, yet he was still heads above anyone not named Clichy or Zab. So why is he being the scapegoat?

1) He's not, people are merely stating the obvious that he was poor.

2) This is the players' own thread, he will be discussed and not other players. That includes people's opinions of him as a player, his recent performances etc

 

[GeekinGav]

Navas needs a kick up the arse from Zabba, when he's bombing past him, screaming "look Jesus, this is how you do it!"

 

[Dax777]

He has our most assists in the league this season, and has created more chances than any of our other players too.

Folks here are never persuaded by facts, just their opinion. Of course he is pretty good. But hey wait till we lose him. Folks are complaining about his crossing not getting to the strikers, forgetting there is something to be said for gettin in those positions to start with. He attempted 12 crosses, Milner on the opposite side had 2. Simply put, he was the only offensive outlet. Only one able to get open in the condensed areas. And, yes his crosses were poor on some of the occasions on others there simply was no outlet. He ran hard, defended well, and made himself open as an option consistently. It's no surprise he was the only player on our team possessing the ball in dangerous areas until Jove came on. But let's call blame him and ignore those who didn't even make an appearance in spite of being on the field.

He had a bad game yesterday, yet he was still heads above anyone not named Clichy or Zab. So why is he being the scapegoat?

1) He's not, people are merely stating the obvious that he was poor.

2) This is the players' own thread, he will be discussed and not other players. That includes people's opinions of him as a player, his recent performances etc

Wrong! In as much as this is his own thread, the rate of negative posts (not to mention the number of outright claims of him being horrible) can be easily compared to the non existent responses in the threads of all the other players who were clearly poorer. I don't see Milner's thread getting as much negative hit, in spite of being outright inconsequential for the 45 he was on. I don't see similar negativity on Silva's either. It's not like he did anything of note.
Silva was poorer, so was Milner - if this wasn't a scapegoating, we'd see similar levels of negative responses on their threads "merely stating the obvious" that they were poor. That clearly is not the case. There is no thread suggesting we find a youth player to more effectively fill Nasri's role on the right, seeing as Milner couldn't. The absence of such a thread, suggest this "stating the obvious", seems pretty selective. And that my friend is scapegoating.

 

[pudge]

Folks here are never persuaded by facts, just their opinion. Of course he is pretty good. But hey wait till we lose him. Folks are complaining about his crossing not getting to the strikers, forgetting there is something to be said for gettin in those positions to start with. He attempted 12 crosses, Milner on the opposite side had 2. Simply put, he was the only offensive outlet. Only one able to get open in the condensed areas. And, yes his crosses were poor on some of the occasions on others there simply was no outlet. He ran hard, defended well, and made himself open as an option consistently. It's no surprise he was the only player on our team possessing the ball in dangerous areas until Jove came on. But let's call blame him and ignore those who didn't even make an appearance in spite of being on the field.

He had a bad game yesterday, yet he was still heads above anyone not named Clichy or Zab. So why is he being the scapegoat?

1) He's not, people are merely stating the obvious that he was poor.

2) This is the players' own thread, he will be discussed and not other players. That includes people's opinions of him as a player, his recent performances etc

Wrong! In as much as this is his own thread, the rate of negative posts (not to mention the number of outright claims of him being horrible) can be easily compared to the non existent responses in the threads of all the other players who were clearly poorer. I don't see Milner's thread getting as much negative hit, in spite of being outright inconsequential for the 45 he was on. I don't see similar negativity on Silva's either. It's not like he did anything of note.
Silva was poorer, so was Milner - if this wasn't a scapegoating, we'd see similar levels of negative responses on their threads "merely stating the obvious" that they were poor. That clearly is not the case. There is no thread suggesting we find a youth player to more effectively fill Nasri's role on the right, seeing as Milner couldn't. The absence of such a thread, suggest this "stating the obvious", seems pretty selective. And that my friend is scapegoating.

It's not selective it's relevant.

Navas had a bad game, if people wish to voice their opinions of his performance then they'll do so (as is their right) in his dedicated thread.

There are numerous posts in the thread discussing Milner with regards to his performance. There was also a vast amount in the match thread.

Personally I saw nothing overly negative in SIlva's performance, Arsenal just did a job on him.

If you wish to create a thread about replacing Milner or Nasri or whoever with a youth team player, go ahead. That's your right to put your opinion across, not "scapegoating" anyone.

People view matches differently, they have different takes on a players performance. If many think Navas was bad then that's just that.

Perhaps it's ironic that some overreact to such things.

Also, I don't see what was "wrong" with what I said; wasn't aware their was a right answer but hey ho. This is Navas' thread, people will post about him.

 

[Dax777]

1) He's not, people are merely stating the obvious that he was poor.

2) This is the players' own thread, he will be discussed and not other players. That includes people's opinions of him as a player, his recent performances etc

Wrong! In as much as this is his own thread, the rate of negative posts (not to mention the number of outright claims of him being horrible) can be easily compared to the non existent responses in the threads of all the other players who were clearly poorer. I don't see Milner's thread getting as much negative hit, in spite of being outright inconsequential for the 45 he was on. I don't see similar negativity on Silva's either. It's not like he did anything of note.
Silva was poorer, so was Milner - if this wasn't a scapegoating, we'd see similar levels of negative responses on their threads "merely stating the obvious" that they were poor. That clearly is not the case. There is no thread suggesting we find a youth player to more effectively fill Nasri's role on the right, seeing as Milner couldn't. The absence of such a thread, suggest this "stating the obvious", seems pretty selective. And that my friend is scapegoating.

It's not selective it's relevant.

Navas had a bad game, if people wish to voice their opinions of his performance then they'll do so (as is their right) in his dedicated thread.

There are numerous posts in the thread discussing Milner with regards to his performance. There was also a vast amount in the match thread.

Personally I saw nothing overly negative in SIlva's performance, Arsenal just did a job on him.

If you wish to create a thread about replacing Milner or Nasri or whoever with a youth team player, go ahead. That's your right to put your opinion across, not "scapegoating" anyone.

People view matches differently, they have different takes on a players performance. If many think Navas was bad then that's just that.

Perhaps it's ironic that some overreact to such things.

Also, I don't see what was "wrong" with what I said; wasn't aware their was a right answer but hey ho. This is Navas' thread, people will post about him.

Perhaps "wrong" wasn't the right word, but simply because people are stating an opinion on a particular players thread, doesn't mean they are not also scapegoating. Also, just because a claim is relevant, doesn't mean it's not also selective. I am sure you are quite aware of that. I didn't see anything wrong with Silva either, nor Milner for that matter. They were both simply shackled by Arsenals tight space. Hence they were less influential than Navas. And at best, equally as ineffective. That Navas was the only one able to get out of his shackle at all, it's in itself telling. That he was the only one of the 3 to bother the goalies gloves also is something. That he also created City best chance is also something else. But like I said in the "other Navas" ( he was so bad apparently he deserved 2) thread, too many must think playing well or not, starts at the attempt at the cross and ends at the result of the immediate outcome thereafter.
Otherwise, this feels a lot like scapegoating to me - but then again this is Navas thread :)

 

[Chi-town blues]

Navas needs a kick up the arse from Zabba, when he's bombing past him, screaming "look Jesus, this is how you do it!"

Zaba needs to keep up Navas's pace . No point in bombing when you have a man on tail and pinned . Navas covers lot of ground to save Zaba's arse .

 

[pudge]

Wrong! In as much as this is his own thread, the rate of negative posts (not to mention the number of outright claims of him being horrible) can be easily compared to the non existent responses in the threads of all the other players who were clearly poorer. I don't see Milner's thread getting as much negative hit, in spite of being outright inconsequential for the 45 he was on. I don't see similar negativity on Silva's either. It's not like he did anything of note.
Silva was poorer, so was Milner - if this wasn't a scapegoating, we'd see similar levels of negative responses on their threads "merely stating the obvious" that they were poor. That clearly is not the case. There is no thread suggesting we find a youth player to more effectively fill Nasri's role on the right, seeing as Milner couldn't. The absence of such a thread, suggest this "stating the obvious", seems pretty selective. And that my friend is scapegoating.

It's not selective it's relevant.

Navas had a bad game, if people wish to voice their opinions of his performance then they'll do so (as is their right) in his dedicated thread.

There are numerous posts in the thread discussing Milner with regards to his performance. There was also a vast amount in the match thread.

Personally I saw nothing overly negative in SIlva's performance, Arsenal just did a job on him.

If you wish to create a thread about replacing Milner or Nasri or whoever with a youth team player, go ahead. That's your right to put your opinion across, not "scapegoating" anyone.

People view matches differently, they have different takes on a players performance. If many think Navas was bad then that's just that.

Perhaps it's ironic that some overreact to such things.

Also, I don't see what was "wrong" with what I said; wasn't aware their was a right answer but hey ho. This is Navas' thread, people will post about him.

Perhaps "wrong" wasn't the right word, but simply because people are stating an opinion on a particular players thread, doesn't mean they are not also scapegoating. Also, just because a claim is relevant, doesn't mean it's not also selective. I am sure you are quite aware of that. I didn't see anything wrong with Silva either, nor Milner for that matter. They were both simply shackled by Arsenals tight space. Hence they were less influential than Navas. And at best, equally as ineffective. That Navas was the only one able to get out of his shackle at all, it's in itself telling. That he was the only one of the 3 to bother the goalies gloves also is something. That he also created City best chance is also something else. But like I said in the "other Navas" ( he was so bad apparently he deserved 2) thread, too many must think playing well or not, starts at the attempt at the cross and ends at the result of the immediate outcome thereafter.
Otherwise, this feels a lot like scapegoating to me - but then again this is Navas thread :)

Of course crossing is not the be all and end all but with regards to Navas it is a huge part of his game and thus a source of great frustration.

He's not someone who's going to take his man on, as frustrating as that is. He does well to get into crossing positions, running behind defenders but if you can't deliver when you get into that position it's makes it rather redundant or all the more frustrating to see.

That clip posted last night; we're breaking and he offers himself out wide to create a crossing opportunity, great. He then gets the ball in plenty of time and makes a cock up of the cross, I mean a monstrosity of a cross.

That's even worse when you consider that's his role in the team, that's his focus. To get into those positions and deliver and he fails to do so more often than he should.

No doubt the focus when Navas is playing is to attack down the right, coupled with the fact Zabaleta is Zabaleta, so a lot of our attacks go through him. Unfortunately, a lot of our attacks stall with him. As a result he's given a lot more opportunities to cross the ball and create chances than the likes of Milner out the left so obviously numbers like crossing success and the like will be quite skewed. However, that's his job he is a focal point to our attack when he's playing so he should be doing a hell of lot better than he is and generally does. He has 6 assists and that's fantastic but he puts in just less than double the amount of crosses than Milner does out the left and yet he has 5. He's not making the most of his own hard work and chances created for him and that's frustrating.

If I was given the chance to improve one spot in the team, one position, it would right wing (left back would be close tbf). You yourself voice annoyance at not pursuing Sanchez, that's his main position as well.