Political relations between UK-EU

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Vic said:
The first modern restriction of immigration to Britain (1905 Aliens Act) was officially to prevent paupers or criminals from entering the country (and deport those who still made it), but the main driver behind it was to control Jewish immigration. And we didn't exactly put out a welcome mat for Jews fleeing the Nazis.
www.timesofisrael.com

Does Britain’s focus on the Kindertransport hide a guilty conscience?

On December 2, the UK marks 80 years since the rescue of Jewish children from the Nazis, but the fate which befell some of those who made it to Britain is no cause for celebration
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
Click to expand...
I'm well aware of that. Not only did we not put out a welcome mat, we barred emigration to the Mandate from Nazi Germany. The Aliens Act was overtly racist. That's why us building a Holocaust Memorial is profoundly hypocritical. We've nothing to be proud of in that respect.

But again, that's another red herring. Countries outside Schengen control their borders and even the Schengen area does to people from non-Schengen countries. Many control them far more tightly than we ever will.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The immigration debate on here is totally pointless, the open border advocates are saying the same things that get rejected by the electorate time and again. Those ideas are now dead, there will be an Australian style immigration system based on skills, applied to the whole world, which is
acceptable to the vast majority.
Click to expand...
I thought that this was going to be a 'forwards looking' thread - or at least that seemed to be what the OP suggested

We are getting dragged back by a couple of posters to talk about the narrow issues that reflect their comfort zone - we should be discussing the future political relations between the UK and the EU

Some just cannot let go of their pet/failed ideals
 
Vic said:
What commitments to what integration?
Click to expand...


We were signed up to the Treaty of Rome by Heath.... three lines in (IIRC) there is a commitment to closer political union.

We ratified it by referendum under Wilsons Government (Labour realised it was a constitutional error not having had a referendum as we were giving up 'sovereignty' )

50 years later we're still denying we signed up to it.
 

Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm well aware of that. Not only did we not put out a welcome mat, we barred emigration to the Mandate from Nazi Germany. The Aliens Act was overtly racist. That's why us building a Holocaust Memorial is profoundly hypocritical. We've nothing to be proud of in that respect.

But again, that's another red herring. Countries outside Schengen control their borders and even the Schengen area does to people from non-Schengen countries. Many control them far more tightly than we ever will.
Click to expand...
And they can do that without leaving the EU?
 
BobKowalski said:
The decision was petty, it was casual vandalism because no value is placed on a scheme like Erasmus, and if as a country we no longer value such a scheme then what does it say about this country.

You can actually ‘Brexit’ and do it in a way that doesn’t make it seem we are full of small minded arseholes. Unfortunately, or perhaps inevitably, we chose the small minded arseholes route.

We place no value on our links with Europe, we see no merit in the European project, we sustain ourselves on the notion that the European project, the Euro must and will fail. We have no vision of ourselves other than being opposed to a ‘doomed project’. It is an article of faith.

The question that remains, the unspoken fear for this country, is what if it doesn’t fail? And if it doesn’t fail, what does that say about our lack of imagination, our lack of vision?

Which brings me back to my original question. What is our vision? What does the UK want to do? What does it want to be?
Click to expand...
Probably, the history books will record, that it says that we had the vision to get out - just in time

The issues are too large for there not to be a fracturing - and therefore your positions are mainly limited to being academic
 
Vic said:
Blair's gone. 84 Labour MPs voted against the "all necessary means" motion, only 2 Tory MPs voted against.
Click to expand...
I never have and never will vote Tory.

Plus there are many other reasons I’ve stopped voting Labour.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Probably, the history books will record, that it says that we had the vision to get out - just in time

The issues are too large for there not to be a fracturing - and therefore your positions are mainly limited to being academic
Click to expand...

Bit harsh, Erasmus is a student facilitation program.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'm well aware of that. Not only did we not put out a welcome mat, we barred emigration to the Mandate from Nazi Germany. The Aliens Act was overtly racist. That's why us building a Holocaust Memorial is profoundly hypocritical. We've nothing to be proud of in that respect.

But again, that's another red herring. Countries outside Schengen control their borders and even the Schengen area does to people from non-Schengen countries. Many control them far more tightly than we ever will.
Click to expand...


isn't that a bit like ........sovereignty?
 
mcfc1632 said:
Probably, the history books will record, that it says that we had the vision to get out - just in time

The issues are too large for there not to be a fracturing - and therefore your positions are mainly limited to being academic
Click to expand...
The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I thought that this was going to be a 'forwards looking' thread - or at least that seemed to be what the OP suggested

We are getting dragged back by a couple of posters to talk about the narrow issues that reflect their comfort zone - we should be discussing the future political relations between the UK and the EU

Some just cannot let go of their pet/failed ideals
Click to expand...
Unless the mods intend to be ruthless, it was always optimistic as a thread title (too narrow). Even your pessimism (or maybe optimism in your case) about the future of the EU isn't strictly the topic - unless you think everything the UK does should be on the assumption that the EU is in a terminal crisis. Even if the EU were doomed to collapse, it would be hugely irresponsible to act as if that were inevitable.
 
west didsblue said:
The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.
Click to expand...

Yaris Varoufakis would disagree with that sentiment.
 
west didsblue said:
The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.
Click to expand...
I think it's instructive to look at polls - however flawed - and most EU citizens are content with the EU (including its Covid response) and quite big majorities think Macron and especially Merkel will do the right thing in world affairs. In fact, most Brits think they will, way more than think their own PM will...
 
west didsblue said:
The history books will probably record??
Can’t you save it till the EU fractures then you can gloat all you like.
Otherwise you just look rather foolish, and will look even more foolish if the EU doesn’t actually fracture.
There’s more chance of one or two countries leaving the Eurozone than the whole thing collapsing but even that’s unlikely as borne out by Greece which could easily have dropped out when it had its crisis but didn’t.
Click to expand...
PannickAtTheDisco said:
Yaris Varoufakis would disagree with that sentiment.
Click to expand...

Would he? Evidence?
 
west didsblue said:
Still not sure what you’re on about. Greece had an economic crisis, got bailed out, accepted austerity measures imposed by the EU rather than crashing out of the Euro or EU, and recovered. That’s all fact and not sentiment. What point are you making?
Click to expand...
He was just making a throwaway remark about Varoufakis that can't be substantiated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top