Political relations between UK-EU

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metalblue said:
Why exactly should the UK taxpayer bail at Eurostar? The French government has a 55% stake in it, the UK government has 0%.

I’m already assuming your argument is based on the fact it has headquarters here, which isn’t actually an argument at all. Should we bail out every company that is headquartered here however unviable or poorly run?

I’m also unsure what it has to do with UK-EU relations. Apart from them tending to frown on state aid. But then when have the French actually give a fuck about EU rules when they don’t suit them?
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If the govt wants to retain any credibility with its green agenda then the Eurostar is what we should be funding not bailing out air travel.
Using your argument it would never have been built. Why should the UK have contributed toward building the fucker in the first place?
Its all about sticking it to the French eh? We should block the entrance to the tunnel with Union flags and have done with it.
 
metalblue said:
Why exactly should the UK taxpayer bail at Eurostar? The French government has a 55% stake in it, the UK government has 0%.

I’m already assuming your argument is based on the fact it has headquarters here, which isn’t actually an argument at all. Should we bail out every company that is headquartered here however unviable or poorly run?

I’m also unsure what it has to do with UK-EU relations. Apart from them tending to frown on state aid. But then when have the French actually give a fuck about EU rules when they don’t suit them?
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Nothing to do with where its HQ is. Eurostar provides a service for people to travel quickly to the continent from central London. Business will lose out if there is less choice but then the current PM’s attitude is “fuck business” and “fuck Europe” so it was always a no brainer that he wouldn’t consider helping Eurostar.
 
bluethrunthru said:
If the govt wants to retain any credibility with its green agenda then the Eurostar is what we should be funding not bailing out air travel.
Using your argument it would never have been built. Why should the UK have contributed toward building the fucker in the first place?
Its all about sticking it to the French eh? We should block the entrance to the tunnel with Union flags and have done with it.
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The UK government no longer has a dog in the fight so I still don’t understand why we, the UK taxpayer, should bail the company out.

It’s green credentials are irrelevant unless you’re suggesting we just buy the thing off the french and other shareholders? In that case I’d not object
 
metalblue said:
The UK government no longer has a dog in the fight so I still don’t understand why we, the UK taxpayer, should bail the company out.

It’s green credentials are irrelevant unless you’re suggesting we just buy the thing off the french and other shareholders? In that case I’d not object
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The U.K. government is helping out loads of companies that are struggling due to the pandemic. Why should it treat Eurostar any different? That was a rhetorical question by the way because I think we all know the answer.
 
west didsblue said:
Nothing to do with where its HQ is. Eurostar provides a service for people to travel quickly to the continent from central London. Business will lose out if there is less choice but then the current PM’s attitude is “fuck business” and “fuck Europe” so it was always a no brainer that he wouldn’t consider helping Eurostar.
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It’s a private company that isn’t strategic to the UK economy. But some one will buy it, it has close to £1bn revenue in normal times.

I get the point you’re making about choice but it is fucking expensive in my experience for business users. All the times I’ve travelled on it for work it’s been as dear as a flight, more so when you consider running costs and passenger numbers - but it was more convenient for me. I’ve used it a few times for my own travel to Paris and it’s not been too bad if you book far enough in advance. But when you consider you can get a sleeper train from Paris to Rome for 40Euro (last time I used for Naples away) it really does seem pricey.
 
west didsblue said:
The U.K. government is helping out loads of companies that are struggling due to the pandemic. Why should it treat Eurostar any different? That was a rhetorical question by the way because I think we all know the answer.
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I’m sure Eurostar can apply for those loans and furlough staff as need be. So not being treated differently at all

In fact I think I read (but might be wrong) the UK government has already given them a loan. And offered to extend terms.
 
metalblue said:
It’s a private company that isn’t strategic to the UK economy. But some one will buy it, it has close to £1bn revenue in normal times.

I get the point you’re making about choice but it is fucking expensive in my experience for business users. All the times I’ve travelled on it for work it’s been as dear as a flight, more so when you consider running costs and passenger numbers - but it was more convenient for me. I’ve used it a few times for my own travel to Paris and it’s not been too bad if you book far enough in advance. But when you consider you can get a sleeper train from Paris to Rome for 40Euro (last time I used for Naples away) it really does seem pricey.
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You don’t think Eurostar is strategic to the U.K. economy?

I suppose you’re right in the Brexit fantasy world where we cut ourselves off from Europe as much as possible. In the real world it’s no less strategic than every other transport link to the continent.
 
metalblue said:
The UK government no longer has a dog in the fight so I still don’t understand why we, the UK taxpayer, should bail the company out.

It’s green credentials are irrelevant unless you’re suggesting we just buy the thing off the french and other shareholders? In that case I’d not object
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such a Little Englander pov - anyway what you are forgetting is at the moment the EU have yet to ratify the alleged deal - they could dump the UK out on its arse and laugh at us as the country is plunged into the abyss by the actions of people like Davis who didn't think taking notes to a meeting was essential and Raab who must have been the only person over the age of 12 in the country who didn't realise how close Dover was to Calais and how important it was the lies from that perennial liar Gove and the ultimate bull shitter Johnson who is fast running out of places where to hide from his damaging actions. No Deal will be No UK.
 
I particularly like the last paragraph in this quote from Lance Forman, former MEP for the Brexit Party.

“I don't believe there will be a negative economic impact; but I also don't think we can measure the impact of 40 years of being in the EU with 3 months of being out.
I have not taken away your rights. The EU have. I believe in free movement and free trade.”

You don’t have to make it up.......
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
I particularly like the last paragraph in this quote from Lance Forman, former MEP for the Brexit Party.

“I don't believe there will be a negative economic impact; but I also don't think we can measure the impact of 40 years of being in the EU with 3 months of being out.
I have not taken away your rights. The EU have. I believe in free movement and free trade.”

You don’t have to make it up.......
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It really does beggar belief when you think about it. We have left the club, are now a third world nation with the accepted rules on international travel applying to us, and it's the EU's fault. We gave up free movement and free trade. The EU said we could keep them, but we declined their offer. Why doesn't he blame Brazil, or Japan, where the same rules of movement apply?

I'd also take issue with his statement about being unable to measure the economic impact after three months of being out of the EU. While it's not conclusive at this stage, their are pointers that are showing a downturn.

When the pandemic hit this time last year and the world went into lockdown, we were still in the transition period, and our exports to the EU and elsewhere in the world declined by a similar level.

Since the new year, after leaving the EU and the end of the transition period, our exports to the EU have dropped by 40%, but our exports to the rest of the world have declined by 8%. There will have been a decline due to the pandemic reducing economic activity, but the change in the difference of trade levels between the EU and the rest of the world since the 1st January is becoming measurable.

25% of British companies that used to export to the EU have stopped exporting because of the additional costs and paperwork involved.

After the January trade figures were released, the government said the slowdown was a result of teething problems and stockpiling. There was stockpiling, and there were teething problems, but three months later, the so called teething problems are now being recognised as a systematic problem that is a permanent impediment to British exporters, and as for the stockpiling, it depends on what the product was. It isn't our happy fish, that's for sure.

The trade figures for February have not yet been published. It's well over a week since they would normally have been publicised. I wonder why?
 
west didsblue said:
You don’t think Eurostar is strategic to the U.K. economy?

I suppose you’re right in the Brexit fantasy world where we cut ourselves off from Europe as much as possible. In the real world it’s no less strategic than every other transport link to the continent.
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It’s strategic? How on earth did we ever manage before 1994? Oh wait there are planes, hovercraft and ferries to get us and freight to Europe. No body is cutting anything off from anyone.

So given there are perfectly viable alternatives it’s isn’t strategic to the UK - But it’s all irrelevant if it goes bust someone will buy it and it won’t cease operations during that time. And if it’s that vital to the UK economy we can always buy it should that happen.

Still no one has explained to me exactly why the UK tax payer should bail out something owned by 55% the French tax payer and 45% by private investors and 0% by the UK tax payer. Why don’t the existing shareholders provide funding?
 
metalblue said:
It’s strategic? How on earth did we ever manage before 1994? Oh wait there are planes, hovercraft and ferries to get us and freight to Europe. No body is cutting anything off from anyone.

So given there are perfectly viable alternatives it’s isn’t strategic to the UK - But it’s all irrelevant if it goes bust someone will buy it and it won’t cease operations during that time. And if it’s that vital to the UK economy we can always buy it should that happen.

Still no one has explained to me exactly why the UK tax payer should bail out something owned by 55% the French tax payer and 45% by private investors and 0% by the UK tax payer. Why don’t the existing shareholders provide funding?
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We managed. then back in the 80s we decided we would be better with a tunnel, why go backwards. We managed 100 years ago without flights, should we go backwards there as well and let airlines go bust.Is it because they have EURO in the name? Sounds just like it.
 
bluethrunthru said:
such a Little Englander pov - anyway what you are forgetting is at the moment the EU have yet to ratify the alleged deal - they could dump the UK out on its arse and laugh at us as the country is plunged into the abyss by the actions of people like Davis who didn't think taking notes to a meeting was essential and Raab who must have been the only person over the age of 12 in the country who didn't realise how close Dover was to Calais and how important it was the lies from that perennial liar Gove and the ultimate bull shitter Johnson who is fast running out of places where to hide from his damaging actions. No Deal will be No UK.
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What the fuck has any of that got to do with the UK taxpayer bailing out Eurostar? Unless in that you’re actually suggesting that unless we do the EU won’t ratify the deal? Which is even more bonkers than suggesting the UK taxpayer should bail them out ahead of the French taxpayer or private funds who actually own it.

But kudos on your little soapbox speech there. I won’t bother getting dragged in to your orbit and start picking it apart as it’s the modus operandi of the remainers on here to avoid any meaningful challenge to their mindset to go off at tangents. Exhibit A above.
 
blueparrot said:
We managed. then back in the 80s we decided we would be better with a tunnel, why go backwards. We managed 100 years ago without flights, should we go backwards there as well and let airlines go bust.Is it because they have EURO in the name? Sounds just like it.
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We are not filling the tunnel in. It will still exist. Why should the UK taxpayer bail out this company?

Your last sentence is just pathetic btw
 
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