Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[goalmole]

As I don't understand politics, am I correct in assuming that the torys won but lost and labour lost but won??

One way of looking at it would be that the Tories are further away now than they wanted to be and Labour are are a lot nearer to where they want to be.

 

[Gabriel]

One way of looking at it would be that the Tories are further away now than they wanted to be and Labour are are a lot nearer to where they want to be.

And all smaller parties realise that they could suddenly be important.

 

[law74]

This guy is a sometimes funny comedian who plays a news anchor on his Youtube channel. He's obviously doing a bit, but this is the type of shit that we have to put up with in the Labour Party at the moment.



I'd remind people that Tony Blair is the only Labour leader to win a General Election in almost half a century. And he won 3 in a row.

Corbyn just lost it by 60 seats to one of the weakest campaigns in living memory.

This is a victory, somehow. Socialism is back. Fuck Blair, New Labour is dead, etc, etc, etc.

Because to many in the Labour Party, politics is a game where you have winners and losers. They think it's a fucking sport. They're not actually attempting to better anybody's lives, they just want to feel great about themselves. Selfish, arrogant, and somewhat delusional about their position in the world.

Corbyn was the strongest socialist candidate in the modern Labour Party. He lost by 60 seats. New Labour won every election it held outside of one - and that was lost to a minority Government which had to form a coalition after a financial crash and the strongest Tory leader since Thatcher.

Serial losers.

Do you ever stop to think if progress members had backed their democratically elected leader for the last 18 months he would now be in number10?
At least Owen Smith has realised he was wrong and admitted this in public

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Things can only get better....

You've just seen peak Corbyn. Now he has some traction in the party it will be all down hill fast as the reality of his hard left ideology becomes clear to the masses.
Enjoy your moment in the sun (well as much sun as you can get on the opposition benches.)

 

[worsleyweb]

Don't think Corbyn ever thought he would win - strikes me as someone who just wants to be a protestor and is at his best when in opposition.

 

[goalmole]

And all smaller parties realise that they could suddenly be important.

The most important thing to come out of this election for me is that people have indicated their desire and acceptance for socialist policies. Should there be another election tomorrow there would be a bigger surge to Labour because people have seen what is possible and realised that a vote for Labour isn't a wasted vote. They've had enough of cuts to services while the rich minority have it coming out of their ears.
The need of the hour is a proper socialist government to roll back the excesses of the kleptocracy that we have at the moment. Tory lite? No thanks. We've had enough of the real thing to last for a lifetime.

 

[somethingelse]

Labour voters are like that was fun can we have another one, err no not just yet anyway
I cant honestly believe that any complacent Tories in Kensington and Battersea or even Canterbury will forget to vote next time

 

[geoff clipp]

As much as I'm opposed to a Tory government, Corbin got 3 seats more than Brown did in 2010. That was following Iraq, 13 years in government, financial crash and Brown being very unpopular. Whilst I hope this is the start of the recovery, they really need to work out how to push on and talking of 'squirming Blairites' will just mean more years of opposition and protest, without actually making any difference whatsoever.

Also worth considering that a lot of the people that wanted Corbyn gone weren't Blairites. A lot of them weren't opposed to Corbyn's politics as such, they just didn't believe he was electable, the ideas were electable or he was doing enough to make himself more electable. I wanted him gone last year as I didn't think he could win people over but he's turned things around a bit now and has earned the right to continue. There's no shame in any MPs admitting that he's turned things around either. I hope they'll get behind him and also that we stop being so tribalistic within the party itself (i.e less of calling anyone who disagrees with him a Blairite).

We still lost the election but people feel optimistic because of the gains that were made and it feels like for the first time, his message has started to resonate with people beyond those who joined the party solely because of him. The grass roots put a lot of work into the campaign and it definitely made a difference. We should see how much further we can take it now. There's room for improvement still and he wasn't that for off being in a position to form a government. If things start to go backwards we can look at it again but something clicked over the past couple of months and it doesn't feel like we're quite finished yet.

 

[Machiavelli]

Don't think Corbyn ever thought he would win - strikes me as someone who just wants to be a protestor and is at his best when in opposition.

I agree with that.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

hate to break this to you mate, our system is very clear. There is a winning post, and she didn't get to it, therefore she didn't win. Nor by any stretch did anyone else, but let's be clear, in our system an election victory requires an outright majority.

Not true.
The winner is the party who forms the government and you don't need an outright majority for that. Just watch for the next couple of weeks.

 

[CitizenTID]

As long as the Conservative Party can guarantee that all of its MPs will toe the line, then the DUP can even abstain to oblige; it does not necessarily have to be seen to vote in favour of something for it to pass. Whether the Conservative Party can be united is a moot point.

I meant the "vote" to allow Tory to form a government sorry, not the in the house. Forgot what it was described as earlier in the thread.

 

[CitizenTID]

If you think the Lib Dems will back McDonell's La La Land economics you really have been living on the moon during the general election campaign they were very clear.
No coalition. No mega-rise in Corp Tax. No hammering of the City that the trading tax would deliver.
If May's talks with the DUP fail then it's another general election.

Perhaps there would be compromises on manifesto but then again, there'd be no public mandate for it

 

[law74]

Perhaps there would be compromises on manifesto but then again, there'd be no public mandate for it

Which then opens it up to challenge in the house of lords going by the Salisbury Convention

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Conference is not until early October (in Manchester, too) but I find it hard to see how she can last until then. Party is caught between Scylla and Charybdis; it loathes public displays of weakness and likes to get on with governing, but the only way around that is either to support her wholeheartedly (impossible with no majority) or ditch her (impossible with no majority).

Can I take a moment to congratulate you for using a homeric reference. My mother would be jumping for joy at reading that!

 

[CitizenTID]

Watch the Blairites squirm....

Bottom guy is unbelievable. Nobody has no idea where the support for Corbyn came from? If you'd taken your head out of your arse whilst you were trying to slate him you'd have realised the movement of people supporting him and his policies. Only need to look at the surge in Labour membership to keep Corbyn as leader to have predicted he'd do a lot better than the papers tried to tell everyone.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It's not a battle, or a war, or a game, or any other crap analogy you have.

It's a survey of the population's political positions and our ability to chime with them. And you heavily lost against a woman who wanted to steal kid's food and old people's houses.

Do you think maybe denigrating the only Labour position that's ever won an election since the invention of the barcode is a sensible action?

Or are you perfectly happy in spending the rest of your life in a "philosophically pure" Opposition while the Tories continue to fuck people over?

We're very different you and I. I want us to compromise so that we can actually help people. You want us to be a master race of ethics.

John Smith died in May 1994, had he lived I and millions like me wouldn't have to have these vacuous conversations with people like you, who clearly do not support labour principles of social justice for all. In the aftermath of Smith's death a group around Blair and Brown convinced the party that the problem they had was the party itself, so they set about gutting it and turned it into a softer version of the Tories, they cobbled together this confection by triangulating as many policies from Labours political opponents as possible and served it up in a popular wrapping and sailed home to a landslide against the backdrop of a tremendously unpopular government.

What we got with Blair was soft toryism with the odd bit of social tinkering by Brown with the whole confection kept afloat by a strong economy and PPI, yet here we are are seven years after Brown collapsed with very little of the Blair/Brown social tinkering intact. We're out of the EU, stagnant living standards, a more unequal society, millions in insecure jobs, zero hours contracts, young people in debt, home ownership an impossible dream and all you can do is fantasize about a return to Blairism and accuse me of pissing on the dreams of millions, somehow relishing my ideological purity and loving every minute of our futile opposition.

Yes, I get it, you repeat it over and over again, you want to vote for something vaguely progressive and you're pissed off Labour won't serve it up for you, you keep banging on about how if only we could find Blair Mark 2 then we could take the country by storm, but where is your evidence for that? 1997?

I suggest you join the Lib Dems, the Labour party is in the process of rediscovering why it exists and re-connecting to its constituency, constructing policies with real teeth that tackle the injustices in our society. this election is a step in the right direction, it would have been great to win but from so far back it was almost impossible, but we'll get there sooner than you think. But noises off from junior Mandelsons like you are just plain annoying, you've had your day, that candy floss had no substance. Cameron once saw himself as the heir to Blair, maybe you can find a Blair Mark 2 with them.

 

[Gabriel]

The most important thing to come out of this election for me is that people have indicated their desire and acceptance for socialist policies. Should there be another election tomorrow there would be a bigger surge to Labour because people have seen what is possible and realised that a vote for Labour isn't a wasted vote. They've had enough of cuts to services while the rich minority have it coming out of their ears.
The need of the hour is a proper socialist government to roll back the excesses of the kleptocracy that we have at the moment. Tory lite? No thanks. We've had enough of the real thing to last for a lifetime.

I sense your delight and frustration, but I would caution against reading too much into this one result. If the need of the hour were what you suggest, then I would imagine that the electorate would have sensed that too and voted Labour into power.It could equally be argued that many who voted Labour saw it as a free hit to protest against the Referendum result of last year or to give Theresa May, in particular, a bloody nose for being so opportunistic and calling a snap election. I don't suspect you to agree with either interpretation, but that just shows the danger of reading too much into one result. :-)

The result of the next election should allow a clearer picture.

 

[west didsblue]

John Smith died in May 1994, had he lived I and millions like me wouldn't have to have these vacuous conversations with people like you, who clearly do not support labour principles of social justice for all. In the aftermath of Smith's death a group around Blair and Brown convinced the party that the problem they had was the party itself, so they set about gutting it and turned it into a softer version of the Tories, they cobbled together this confection by triangulating as many policies from Labours political opponents as possible and served it up in a popular wrapping and sailed home to a landslide against the backdrop of a tremendously unpopular government.

What we got with Blair was soft toryism with the odd bit of social tinkering by Brown with the whole confection kept afloat by a strong economy and PPI, yet here we are are seven years after Brown collapsed with very little of the Blair/Brown social tinkering intact. We're out of the EU, stagnant living standards, a more unequal society, millions in insecure jobs, zero hours contracts, young people in debt, home ownership an impossible dream and all you can do is fantasize about a return to Blairism and accuse me of pissing on the dreams of millions, somehow relishing my ideological purity and loving every minute of our futile opposition.

Yes, I get it, you repeat it over and over again, you want to vote for something vaguely progressive and you're pissed off Labour won't serve it up for you, you keep banging on about how if only we could find Blair Mark 2 then we could take the country by storm, but where is your evidence for that? 1997?

I suggest you join the Lib Dems, the Labour party is in the process of rediscovering why it exists and re-connecting to its constituency, constructing policies with real teeth that tackle the injustices in our society. this election is a step in the right direction, it would have been great to win but from so far back it was almost impossible, but we'll get there sooner than you think. But noises off from junior Mandelsons like you are just plain annoying, you've had your day, that candy floss had no substance. Cameron once saw himself as the heir to Blair, maybe you can find a Blair Mark 2 with them.

Blair and Brown were right. Three election victories proved that.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Blair and Brown were right. Three election victories proved that.

On that basis Thatcher was right too

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Not true.
The winner is the party who forms the government and you don't need an outright majority for that. Just watch for the next couple of weeks.

What utter bollocks, you cling to your view if you want to but your confusing the issue of biggest party and outright majority. I feel the need to be precise with what you state given what you've said, the tories COMBINED with the DUP won the election. That's being precise