Racism in Football

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

just like you may use a racist or homophobic remark without being racist nor homophobic in your core.

The big problem with that line of reasoning — and it's huge — is that it takes no account whatsoever of the effect on the people it's directed against. And it's deeply hurtful, in many cases. They're not to know whether you're “racist or homophobic in your core” (and incidentally I have my doubts sometimes about people's ability to be honest with themselves about that — it's like the old “I'm not racist but…” conundrum). It doesn't much matter to them what you think you are. It's just insulting and hurtful to be judged as inferior on the basis of your skin colour, or sexual orientation. Or gender.
And by the way, let me specify two things:
a) I'm no champion of wokism, which I think in certain societies is simply becoming a witch-hunt by a self-appointed vigilante group of political correctness. As a kid, I occasionally told racist or homophobic jokes, because I thought it was cool, and when I knew better, a long time ago, I stopped doing it, because I realised that, well, it wasn't cool at all.
b) I've been to Argentina several times, and it's one of my favourite countries in Latin America. BA rocks as a city, but there are lots of other lovely cities and regions. No problems whatsoever with Argentina and Argentinians.
Singing that song was wrong, and surprising, actually. Oh, and by the way, in the final of the WC, if I was rooting for anyone, it was for Argentina. Mainly because of Messi. (And I have French nationality, as well as my British nationality).

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The big problem with that line of reasoning — and it's huge — is that it takes no account whatsoever of the effect on the people it's directed against. And it's deeply hurtful, in many cases. They're not to know whether you're “racist or homophobic in your core” (and incidentally I have my doubts sometimes about people's ability to be honest with themselves about that — it's like the old “I'm not racist but…” conundrum). It doesn't much matter to them what you think you are. It's just insulting and hurtful to be judged as inferior on the basis of your skin colour, or sexual orientation. Or gender.
And by the way, let me specify two things:
a) I'm no champion of wokism, which I think in certain societies is simply becoming a witch-hunt by a self-appointed vigilante group of political correctness. As a kid, I occasionally told racist or homophobic jokes, because I thought it was cool, and when I knew better, a long time ago, I stopped doing it, because I realised that, well, it wasn't cool at all.
b) I've been to Argentina several times, and it's one of my favourite countries in Latin America. BA rocks as a city, but there are lots of other lovely cities and regions. No problems whatsoever with Argentina and Argentinians.
Singing that song was wrong, and surprising, actually. Oh, and by the way, in the final of the WC, if I was rooting for anyone, it was for Argentina. Mainly because of Messi. (And I have French nationality, as well as my British nationality).

Great post. It's the target of the remark who has the right to deem it racist.

 

[better dead than red]

Great post. It's the target of the remark who has the right to deem it racist.

I agree, within reason though. For example, there is a school of thought now that showing up for your job on time at an appointed hour is "racist." I believe that to be rubbish.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I agree, within reason though. For example, there is a school of thought now that showing up for your job on time at an appointed hour is "racist." I believe that to be rubbish.

On the surface it is rubbish but it could depend on the context. If a white person was using it to denigrate what they saw as poor timekeeping by a group of non-white colleagues then it could be racist.

Imagine a scenario where Muslims need to pray at a certain time, meaning they're regularly later in to work than non-Muslim colleagues. Or religious Jews who need to leave work early on Fridays in the winter months to prepare for the Sabbath.

Someone who didn't have the same obligations who, despite knowing about these constraints, complained about that could easily be regarded as expressing a racist sentiment.

And it's highly likely that anyone who was the target of those comments would regard them as discriminatory.

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Is it that different to "2 world wars, 1 world cup" or 10 German bombers? Ji Sung Park eats dogs? Cisse's family at the bottom of the sea? "Adebayor, Adebayor, your dad washes elephants, your mum is a whore"

All that's changed is cameraphones so you see the players joinging in.

United sung that Park song loud enough for it to be heard on television multiple times last season and not a thing was done about it.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Not just Enzo Fernandez. Lisandro Martinez (United), Alex Mac Allister (Liverpool), Giovanni Lo Celso (Spurs), and Guido Rodriguez (Betis) all on camera joining in. And that's just the ones on camera.

Lots of outrage about the rag and dipper joining in*


*I mean negligible in our press.

 

[TinFoilHat]

He’s had an apology written for him, admitting singing the song, which is pretty much proof he did.

In comic font.

Is he being sarcastic?

 

[TinFoilHat]

As an aside to the issue of racism here, when the fuck did it become a thing for national teams to sing about other national teams/players when celebrating their own success?

You have Argentina signing about France, Morata singing about Musiala at their parade, and Cucurella singing about Haaland

If this is a new trend it needs to get in the bin asap

Indeed.

Imagine if England won the Euros and the players were filmed singing the German bombers song.

 

[better dead than red]

On the surface it is rubbish but it could depend on the context. If a white person was using it to denigrate what they saw as poor timekeeping by a group of non-white colleagues then it could be racist.

Imagine a scenario where Muslims need to pray at a certain time, meaning they're regularly later in to work than non-Muslim colleagues. Or religious Jews who need to leave work early on Fridays in the winter months to prepare for the Sabbath.

Someone who didn't have the same obligations who, despite knowing about these constraints, complained about that could easily be regarded as expressing a racist sentiment.

And it's highly likely that anyone who was the target of those comments would regard them as discriminatory.

No. I understand all of that. What I was saying is, there is some effort to say if your job begins at 8 a.m. if you show up at 8:30 a.m. and your employer tells you you are late and it can't happen again that it is "racist".

 

[Man-chester copperpot]

Can somebody clear something up, Argentina have won the Copa America.

Is there a reason why the are singing about France and their players?

If it was a song about Brazil or Columbia (who they beat in the final) i could understand singing about them.

What the hell has Mbappe, France and it’s black players got to do with it - is there some bad blood between the countries? Maybe going back to the world cup?

It’s like Spain singing about Peru’s players - i don’t get it