Rags Debt - Daily Mail & Panorama [Merged]

[samharris]

yeah thats it...essex boys rule























pats sam on head and walks away .its a good feeling to be kind to the special needs people

"its a good feeling to be kind to the special needs people"[/quote]

It certainly is..and that's why I was..

 

[The Fixer]

Sorry if posted not read the whole thread....

Fan power could force Manchester United’s owners to the negotiating table over the sale of the club after it was revealed that the Reds have only sold 18,000 season tickets for next season.

Sources close to fan groups have been told that less than less than a third of last season’s 56,000 season ticket holders have bought seats for the new campaign.

United expect thousands more to renew before Friday’s deadline, with an Old Trafford insider saying: “There is always a late rush to buy.”

But MirrorFootball understands that the Glazers have been shocked by the level of dissention shown so far.

Full article at Glazers Shocked As United Season Ticket Renewals Plummet | Football/Soccer | Peacefmonline.com

Cue: Titanic pics :O)

 

[Metal Biker]

Sorry if posted not read the whole thread....

Fan power could force Manchester United’s owners to the negotiating table over the sale of the club after it was revealed that the Reds have only sold 18,000 season tickets for next season.

Sources close to fan groups have been told that less than less than a third of last season’s 56,000 season ticket holders have bought seats for the new campaign.

United expect thousands more to renew before Friday’s deadline, with an Old Trafford insider saying: “There is always a late rush to buy.”

But MirrorFootball understands that the Glazers have been shocked by the level of dissention shown so far.

Full article at Glazers Shocked As United Season Ticket Renewals Plummet | Football/Soccer | Peacefmonline.com

Cue: Titanic pics :O)

So, if they don't sell out their season tickets United lose out on millions of pounds of income and are smegged, but if they do then the Glazers have more reason to stay, and United are smegged.

Am i right so far?

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps there is nothing to hide? Perhaps they feel comfortable with the levels of debt to a degree due to the income from the rags?

Might be a niaive thing to say, but you never know - plus they have all the figures to hand rather than us trying to piece it together.

(just reading that again and if it sounds critical of the points from you PB - apologies if it does; it isn't supposed to be, it's just me thinking aloud)

how astute..dont you know this board is full of city wideboys...spending their time on here whilst manipulating the worlds financial markets in their spare time....

I'm just interested to know as much as possible and how real the danger is of meltdown at the swamp. I'm interested to know how your lot feel about it - more than just 'it's a disgrace' - as I asked on another post.

What's happening is a huge lesson in business for everyone. It's amazing how it is legitimate business practice to operate the way they have done. The protests, just like Liverpool, are a hopeless cause and likely doomed to failure - there are very few scenarios that would force them to sell, in fact the only realistic option would be for some wealthy individual or group to come along and offer them a silly price to get them out - but then wouldn't you be back to the same place - ie privately owned with no control over your destiny? The Glazers seem to be holding all the cards, with the majority of debt heaped onto the club rather than themselves. It's incredible.

Undoubtedly, we have been VERY fortunate in who chose to buy us but in just the same way, we have no control over our destiny. What's great for us though is our owner currently seems to be a bit of a visionary and is being true to his word.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The simple thing i want to know is this, right now is the United situation comfortable, cause for concern, totally fluffed?

I try to look at it dispassionately but I'd definitely say it's cause for concern at the moment.

The simplest test is not profit and loss but how much cash do they generate. The last two years they've generated around £90m of free cash from their operations (that's their business before interest and capital repayments, purchase of any fixed assets and transfers).

So that's the pot that they have to pay all those other things from. It's like saying what have I got left after paying my mortgage, gas, electric, council tax etc. That's the money you put towards holidays, clothes and other luxuries but also paying off your credit card.

From that (just under) £90m they have to pay something like £43m in interest on their bonds. The rest is therefore available for other uses. The Glazers have to fins some way of paying off their expensive PIK notes, which are racking up interest at 14.25% and may soon be going up to over 16%. These have to be paid back in 2017 at the latest and they need to take at least £40m a year from the rags for the next 6 years to do that, I reckon. The terms of the bond meant they could do that, as well as takig another £6m in directors fees.

So if you add £43m, £40m and £6m, that doesn't leave much change from £90m. So even while their income is high, with regular CL football and 75,000 crowds (they pull in over £3m per matchday) they will struggle to fund big transfers unless they sell players. That assumes the Glazers take out that £40m in full but if they don't then they won't clear the PIK notes which are racking up interest. So they have to make a choice - do they leave money in the club for players or do they clear their PIK notes debt? One or other has to give. And they've made no arrangements to repay the £500m bonds in 2017.

If their income starts dropping and, in the worst case, they lose out on CL money (probably worth over £40m a season to them across all income streams) then all they can do is pay the bond interest. That means no money for players and none for the Glazers. Then they are totally fluffed.

 

[samharris]

Sorry if posted not read the whole thread....

Fan power could force Manchester United’s owners to the negotiating table over the sale of the club after it was revealed that the Reds have only sold 18,000 season tickets for next season.

Sources close to fan groups have been told that less than less than a third of last season’s 56,000 season ticket holders have bought seats for the new campaign.

United expect thousands more to renew before Friday’s deadline, with an Old Trafford insider saying: “There is always a late rush to buy.”

But MirrorFootball understands that the Glazers have been shocked by the level of dissention shown so far.

Full article at Glazers Shocked As United Season Ticket Renewals Plummet | Football/Soccer | Peacefmonline.com

Cue: Titanic pics :O)

The Glazers had better listen to fan power then and sell up at a huge loss so as to help pay their huge loan payments...oh hang on :)

 

[dario2739]

I don't believe that for one second to be honest. They may struggle, unlike previous years, to sell out next season, but that's down to the credit crunch, they're too fucking thick to organise a protest like this... don't forget we're talking about fans wearing yellow and green scarves, while wearing the red shirt and strolling around with armfuls of souvenir shop bags!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Sorry if posted not read the whole thread....

Fan power could force Manchester United’s owners to the negotiating table over the sale of the club after it was revealed that the Reds have only sold 18,000 season tickets for next season.

Sources close to fan groups have been told that less than less than a third of last season’s 56,000 season ticket holders have bought seats for the new campaign.

United expect thousands more to renew before Friday’s deadline, with an Old Trafford insider saying: “There is always a late rush to buy.”

But MirrorFootball understands that the Glazers have been shocked by the level of dissention shown so far.

Full article at Glazers Shocked As United Season Ticket Renewals Plummet | Football/Soccer | Peacefmonline.com

Cue: Titanic pics :O)

The Glazers had better listen to fan power then and sell up at a huge loss so as to help pay there huge loan payments...oh hang on :)

Exactly. If they're forced to sell anything it will be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Then they'll stick with the rags. so the harder the GaYs fight, the longer they'll be stuck with them. Delicious.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Programme was an aboslute load of shite. That wasn't panorama it was kiddy stuff. What was with the gnomes and the knights fighting each other? What a joke.

Only bit that was of any interest at all to me was the first rag they interviewed who was a cockney

 

[Metal Biker]

The simple thing i want to know is this, right now is the United situation comfortable, cause for concern, totally fluffed?

I try to look at it dispassionately but I'd definitely say it's cause for concern at the moment.

The simplest test is not profit and loss but how much cash do they generate. The last two years they've generated around £90m of free cash from their operations (that's their business before interest and capital repayments, purchase of any fixed assets and transfers).

So that's the pot that they have to pay all those other things from. It's like saying what have I got left after paying my mortgage, gas, electric, council tax etc. That's the money you put towards holidays, clothes and other luxuries but also paying off your credit card.

From that (just under) £90m they have to pay something like £43m in interest on their bonds. The rest is therefore available for other uses. The Glazers have to fins some way of paying off their expensive PIK notes, which are racking up interest at 14.25% and may soon be going up to over 16%. These have to be paid back in 2017 at the latest and they need to take at least £40m a year from the rags for the next 6 years to do that, I reckon. The terms of the bond meant they could do that, as well as takig another £6m in directors fees.

So if you add £43m, £40m and £6m, that doesn't leave much change from £90m. So even while their income is high, with regular CL football and 75,000 crowds (they pull in over £3m per matchday) they will struggle to fund big transfers unless they sell players. That assumes the Glazers take out that £40m in full but if they don't then they won't clear the PIK notes which are racking up interest. So they have to make a choice - do they leave money in the club for players or do they clear their PIK notes debt? One or other has to give. And they've made no arrangements to repay the £500m bonds in 2017.

If their income starts dropping and, in the worst case, they lose out on CL money (probably worth over £40m a season to them across all income streams) then all they can do is pay the bond interest. That means no money for players and none for the Glazers. Then they are totally fluffed.

Ever thought of being a Gun Launderer? There's so much ammunition here it's untrue, cheers mate!

I'm also under the impression that (mega rich billionaires a la Sheikh Mansour aside) that most businesses would see United as a high risk club to invest in and steer clear, or are our beloved neighbours fans right in saying that businessmen high and wide are waiting in the wings to finance a takeover, due to their proven record at generating revenue?