Ref Watch City Games - 2023/24

[Paladin]

Thanks for typing out my argument. My challenge of this human nature seems to be the main bone of contention.

I would add that the rhetoric around bias/corruption is exponentially increasing and if it doesn’t calm down, there will be less referees leading to poorer ones rising to the top and exacerbating peoples’ ire at perceived corruption.

We will reap what we sow and fulfil a self-proclaimed prophecy.

Many referees have big egos, and I doubt it they are affected by anything the fans think it do. In fact they revel in it. The most obvious one of these is Mike Dean. Webb had an air of authority about him back in the day.

Others seem to have a timid demeanor, and it's surprising they have reached the top of the game. David Coote always looks to me like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

As a former referee, I wasn't in the slightest bothered by abuse. But those that are will not last the course. It takes a strong personality to get to the top.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I don't see how refs get hammered.
I've not seen 1 yet get interviewed after a game and answer any questions about their performance.
Unlike players and managers.

Have you seen this forum, Twitter and rolling Sports news? They get hammered constantly.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Many referees have big egos, and I doubt it they are affected by anything the fans think it do. In fact they revel in it. The most obvious one of these is Mike Dean. Webb had an air of authority about him back in the day.

Others seem to have a timid demeanor, and it's surprising they have reached the top of the game. David Coote always looks to me like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

As a former referee, I wasn't in the slightest bothered by abuse. But those that are will not last the course. It takes a strong personality to get to the top.

All refs have to have big egos and thick skins because 99% of football fans call them cunts whatever they do.

 

[Paladin]

It’s not my intention pushing this point just to prove you wrong.

It highlights a wider issue that people often throw up old quotes from ex referees as proof of some kind of skullduggery.

But just like ex players trying to make a few quid on the back of their careers, it should be considered that to get work in that field, you need to have something interesting to say.

And it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that a controversial quote here and there might have been misremembered, exaggerated or just plain made up, if there’s likely to be a drink in it.

I ran a line for Jeff Winter - Macclesfield v Chorley in an early FA Cup round. I think I might have been his punishment for sending Roy Keane off.

 

[ballbag]

Have you seen this forum, Twitter and rolling Sports news? They get hammered constantly.

With respect, what has that got to do with referees being made responsible for being shit despite years of training? Until we hear from the referees or their manager(s) about contentious decisions then that'll go on forever.

Again, its a problem of the referee's own making.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

With respect, what has that got to do with referees being made responsible for being shit despite years of training? Until we hear from the referees or their manager(s) about contentious decisions then that'll go on forever.

Again, its a problem of the referee's own making.

They aren’t shit though, are they? They make the right call in the vast majority of cases.

There‘s a middle part that they are all in.

None are perfect, most aren’t shit and most do a good job in increasingly difficult circumstances.

Losing football matches is hardly ever the players’ or manager’s fault. It‘s because the referee didn’t give a foul throw after 35 minutes and didn’t book two more of their players.

Referees are not beyond criticism. They are however unfairly criticised in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Stephen230]

I don't see how refs get hammered.
I've not seen 1 yet get interviewed after a game and answer any questions about their performance.
Unlike players and managers.

Players don’t get grilled on their mistakes though do they? Which is basically what people are calling for with referee interviews post match.

Winning players get smoke blown up their arse. And losing players get a quick couple of vague questions about “What went wrong today?” in a respectful hushed tone.

No player gets shown a clip of them missing an easy interception and asked to explain what the fuck they were up to there ? Which is pretty much the equivalent of how a referee interview would go.

 

[ballbag]

They aren’t shit though, are they? They make the right call in the vast majority of cases.

There‘s a middle part that they are all in.

None are perfect, most aren’t shit and most do a good job in increasingly difficult circumstances.

Losing football matches is hardly ever the players’ or manager’s fault. It‘s because the referee didn’t give a foul throw after 35 minutes and didn’t book two more of their players.

Referees are not beyond criticism. They are however unfairly criticised in the grand scheme of things.

Yes they are shit. You'll never change my mind on that.

So shit that they've introduced rules where players and managers are booked every game for questioning how shit some of their decisions are. Actually implemented a law to protect them from scrutiny and dressed it up as a respect the referee campaign.

Enjoy your hill.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Players don’t get grilled on their mistakes though do they? Which is basically what people are calling for with referee interviews post match.

Winning players get smoke blown up their arse. And losing players get a quick couple of vague questions about “What went wrong today?” in a respectful hushed tone.

No player gets shown a clip of them missing an easy interception and asked to explain what the fuck they were up to there ? Which is pretty much the equivalent of how a referee interview would go.

Yeah, I'd would have loved that ref on Sunday at the Joie to have been interviewed. First question: Can you explain your thinking about the penalty because both sets of fans in the stands have laughed off their genitalia?

 

[Kippax77]

Have you seen this forum, Twitter and rolling Sports news? They get hammered constantly.

Don't think too many of them would notice anything from this site to be honest

 

[Kippax77]

Players don’t get grilled on their mistakes though do they? Which is basically what people are calling for with referee interviews post match.

Winning players get smoke blown up their arse. And losing players get a quick couple of vague questions about “What went wrong today?” in a respectful hushed tone.

No player gets shown a clip of them missing an easy interception and asked to explain what the fuck they were up to there ? Which is pretty much the equivalent of how a referee interview would go.

So what about managers?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Don't think too many of them would notice anything from this site to be honest

True, unless they look at the officiating thread on the general forum where they are announced on a Monday and described as shit and corrupt consistently for the week before the game even kicks off.

Then looking in the matchday, post match and this thread, there will be no hint of anyone suggesting that they are corrupt and listing decisions they’d got wrong.

 

[cleavers]

It'd be nice if we could get back on topic, rather than discussing each other :-)

 

[cheekybids]

I think some are mistaking my blowback of conspiracy theories for full support of referees. Of course they can be better and make less mistakes.

Quoting decisions that go against a team isn’t proof of corruption.

I think we’re on a slippery slope with refs and it’ll get worse the more they are hammered.

VAR should be used differently. I think we all agree in that. I think where we don’t is that referees go into games deliberately going to favour one side over the other.

I think many of us have argued there is a bias / risk reward. They want to get the decisions right & will but then you ask us for evidence…..

I say balance of probability is evidence. If it happens a few times in favour of X but loads in favour of Y then it looks dodgy.

1 penalty in the premier league versus countless for the Rags & then you look at those given for them & refused for us is more than a coincidence. My opinion is it’s down the fear of scrutiny.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think many of us have argued there is a bias / risk reward. They want to get the decisions right & will but then you ask us for evidence…..

I say balance of probability is evidence. If it happens a few times in favour of X but loads in favour of Y then it looks dodgy.

1 penalty in the premier league versus countless for the Rags & then you look at those given for them & refused for us is more than a coincidence. My opinion is it’s down the fear of scrutiny.

It’s definitely circumstantial evidence. I’d need more to convict someone of corruption though. Maybe my bar is too high. Maybe others’ is too low.

Who knows? I just don’t see how it benefits anyone to repeatedly shout corruption.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

Yes. And not with players running at 35kph. They're making split second decisions under extreme pressure and then forensically pulled apart in slow motion.

But it's their job. It's what they're paid for. It's what they train to do. Being honest isn't a crime. And yes, I 100% believe some referees are dishonest to get themselves up the ladder.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

But it's their job. It's what they're paid for. It's what they train to do. Being honest isn't a crime. And yes, I 100% believe some referees are dishonest to get themselves up the ladder.

Nobody is perfect at their job though and not many will have more scrutiny applied in the media than them.

You could well be right that some embellish their CVs to go up the ladder quickly. It happens everywhere else. Whether they are dishonest is unknown as they don’t referee the clubs that get the perceived balance until they reach the top. How do they prove their worth to these manipulators? By relegating Rotherham from the Championship when they shouldn’t have?

 

[cleavers]

You could well be right that some embellish their CVs to go up the ladder quickly. It happens everywhere else. Whether they are dishonest is unknown as they don’t referee the clubs that get the perceived balance until they reach the top. How do they prove their worth to these manipulators? By relegating Rotherham from the Championship when they shouldn’t have?

By saying they support(ed) clubs like Altincham ?

They're all into football if they are referee's, which means that they will likely have a club they support, it doesn't have to be corruption, it can simply be bias, or even simply media influence.

 

[halfcenturyup]

So what do we think the refereeing team will be like tonight? I will make some predictions:

Less skillful team won't be allowed to kick more skillful team around the park
First yellow card for Copenhagen
No yellow card for Rodri
No yellow card for Guardiola
No controversial VAR decisions
No two minute delays for VAR offside calls
After the game we will be saying the ref was good, who was he?

And for the weekend:

Chelsea's cloggers will be allowed to kick City around the park
First yellow card for City
Yellow card for Rodri
Yellow card for Guardiola
Two controversial VAR decisions
Two minute delays for VAR offside calls
After the game we will be saying the ref was corrupt

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

By saying they support(ed) clubs like Altincham ?

They're all into football if they are referee's, which means that they will likely have a club they support, it doesn't have to be corruption, it can simply be bias, or even simply media influence.

Not sure how that equates to corruption/dishonesty. Mike Dean was called a scouse supporter for decades and he really was a Tranmere fan.

Taylor may well be an Altrincham fan. Nothing has ever been proven otherwise barring his family’s allegiance.

My brother is a rag. That doesn’t make me one.

Taylor referees in the same way every match. His weakness is controlling emotional games. He loses control.

I‘m saying this, despite the 3-1 Chelsea defeat that still annoys me to this day, as I don’t believe he goes into games ready to change the outcome. He’s made high profile mistakes. All refs do. All fans believe it is mostly against their own team.