Religion

vmsuhail said:
He was most likely talking about your ancestors though.
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Well it’s a sweeping generalisation made about 2 billion people but I get what he’s saying, very few Christians live like Jesus or how he instructed. He himself (Gandhi) was fairly immoral sexually and in his views about Africans so a bit of a hypocrite.
 
Octavian said:
Christianity is still over 53% in the UK and Islam and Hinduism between themselves make around another 5%. How much people are practicing is another question but they’re stating they belong to that faith.
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Those figures are misleading. Many people filling out the census forms WILL tick the box that relates to the religion their families were...like "Catholic" or "CoE". But they don't necessarily believe in any god. Only 15% of the UK's population consider themselves religious, according to one report.
 
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Octavian said:
Well it’s a sweeping generalisation made about 2 billion people but I get what he’s saying, very few Christians live like Jesus or how he instructed. He himself (Gandhi) was fairly immoral sexually and in his views about Africans so a bit of a hypocrite.
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I don't think it was a generalization. His experiences with Christians were mostly with the Britishers and he didn't find the imperialists Christ-like. Yeah, he did that weird experiment to test his celibacy. Gandhi's views about Africans are from his personal experiences. People were not that careful about racial stereotypes like how it is today.
 
vmsuhail said:
I don't think it was a generalization. His experiences with Christians were mostly with the Britishers and he didn't find the imperialists Christ-like. Yeah, he did that weird experiment to test his celibacy. Gandhi's views about Africans are from his personal experiences. People were not that careful about racial stereotypes like how it is today.
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It was literally the definition of a stereotype if he based worldwide Christianity on imperial Britain. He must have encountered thousands of Christians out of billions, likewise with Africans, he generalised.
 
Marklr said:
Those figures are misleading. Many people filling out the census forms WILL tick the box that relates to the religion their families were...like "Catholic" or "CoE". But they don't necessarily believe in any god. Only 15% of the UK's population consider themselves religious, according to one report.
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Which report?
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
There are people that genuinely care for your welfare, because of their evolved human nature. If the only reason they think they care is because religion tells them to…then they’re screwed in the head.
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I would prefer someone screwed in the head who cares about me over someone 100% sane/balanced/whatever you call it who does not give a shit.

However, my fundamental point was that all human organisations have corruption within them. Even in the highly enlightened and progressive brotherhood that we call City fans, there will be some paedos, wife-beaters, racists, gangsters - maybe even Tory MPs.

I don't know what percentage, but let's say 2% of City fans are reprobates. Does that mean the other 98% should be ashamed and reject City? Does that make them equally culpable? Does that mean following City s a kind of mental illness? When you think about it, it's scarcely rational to get excited about 22 millionaires kicking a ball around a field, but all of us do, don't we?

Funnily enough, life is not 100% rational and logical. We are human beings, not computers. And pretty much everyone (consciously or not) follows some kind of philosophy, all of which could be described as 'made up bollocks.'
 
Sarutaka said:
That makes no sense though, because in the history of Africa, Christianity has depicted them as a curse, pegan and savages. They have also forced people to convert and if not killed them. You have of Christian leaders such as the pope and Mohammed himself doing and saying disgusting things about Africans.

don’t get me wrong, I understand both religion have had individuals doing good things. But you can’t just ignore centralism of religion when coming in contact with africa. It’s an excuse to say religion has been a tool for excuse.

mohammed sold slave, African history had the Arabic slave trade. I don’t see the excuse?

Christianity considers African spirituality as pegan, the pope gave the go ahead for the slave trade of Africans as they were considered uncivilised. I don’t see the excuse? Just people people believing in their religion. This still happens today.
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What disgusting thing did Muhammad(saw) say about the Africans ? He explicitly called out racism in his farewell sermon.
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor does a black have any superiority over a white, except by piety and good action."

Muhammad(saw) lived in a society deeply rooted in slavery. Slaves formed the majority of the labor force. When you say "mohammed sold slave", you are completely ignoring all the teachings he stated against slavery.
 
Octavian said:
Which report?
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I can't find it now...but I did read i!! I wasn't dreaming. I'm not sure if it was a survey or just estimated.
But the point is that many people that say they're "catholic" or whatever, do so because it's just family tradition. I used to tick the "CoE" box on many forms I filled in....even though I knew it was all bollox.
I don't know ANYBODY that is religious any more. Apart from some Muslims.
 
Marklr said:
I can't find it now...but I did read i!! I wasn't dreaming. I'm not sure if it was a survey or just estimated.
But the point is that many people that say they're "catholic" or whatever, do so because it's just family tradition. I used to tick the "CoE" box on many forms I filled in....even though I knew it was all bollox.
I don't know ANYBODY that is religious any more. Apart from some Muslims.
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I don’t disagree with the general point about box ticking and the figures likely being significantly lower for those that practice their religion but I still think 15% is a bit low. That’s probably accurate for those attending church but not those who actually believe there’s a God and it’s the Christian one. Muslims are much more devout but again, I know a few who just say they are but don’t actually care.
 
Octavian said:
I don’t disagree with the general point about box ticking and the figures likely being significantly lower for those that practice their religion but I still think 15% is a bit low. That’s probably accurate for those attending church but not those who actually believe there’s a God and it’s the Christian one. Muslims are much more devout but again, I know a few who just say they are but don’t actually care.
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Yeah...I think it's ACTIVELY being Christian or religious that is only around 15%. Many of these surveys and reports can be confusing or even misleading.
 
Marklr said:
Yeah...I think it's ACTIVELY being Christian or religious that is only around 15%. Many of these surveys and reports can be confusing or even misleading.
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It’s how you define “active”. My wife believes in it, prays etc. and will openly defend her faith but very rarely goes to church on a Sunday. I think she would be discounted from those figures for that. It’s probably somewhere in the middle of 15% and 53%.
 
vmsuhail said:
What disgusting thing did Muhammad(saw) say about the Africans ? He explicitly called out racism in his farewell sermon.
"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor does a black have any superiority over a white, except by piety and good action."

Muhammad(saw) lived in a society deeply rooted in slavery. Slaves formed the majority of the labor force. When you say "mohammed sold slave", you are completely ignoring all the teachings he stated against slavery.
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What did he mean when the Koran talks multiple times about multiple Slave wives then?
 
BrianW said:
There are religions and religions. Not all say you will go to hell if you don't sign up for their brand. Not even the Pope says that these days.
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They don't say that in countries where it'd be bad PR. But I wonder if the same applies to their clergy in developing countries. And write to the Vatican and ask them for their official position on this, and I imagine they'll respond with a quite clear policy that if you don't sign up for their brand, you'll get an eternity in hell.
 
Octavian said:
I don’t disagree with the general point about box ticking and the figures likely being significantly lower for those that practice their religion but I still think 15% is a bit low. That’s probably accurate for those attending church but not those who actually believe there’s a God and it’s the Christian one. Muslims are much more devout but again, I know a few who just say they are but don’t actually care.
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There's no way 15% of the population regularly attend church. The CofE weekly attendance went down from 1.08 million in 2009 to 852k in 2019. In 2015, it was reported that a quarter of their churches had less than 20 people a week going and that dropped to less than 10 in rural areas. The CofE represents about half of all Christians, so you could presumably double that total if you add the various other denominations to that. But for 15% of people to regularly go to church, you'd need 16 million people to go.

One figure you might get though is anyone who has been to church in the past year, and then you get the Easter and Christmas mass crowd, which is fair enough, but you also get anyone who goes to a funeral or wedding, which is a bit more disingenuous.
 
BrianW said:
I would prefer someone screwed in the head who cares about me over someone 100% sane/balanced/whatever you call it who does not give a shit.

However, my fundamental point was that all human organisations have corruption within them. Even in the highly enlightened and progressive brotherhood that we call City fans, there will be some paedos, wife-beaters, racists, gangsters - maybe even Tory MPs.

I don't know what percentage, but let's say 2% of City fans are reprobates. Does that mean the other 98% should be ashamed and reject City? Does that make them equally culpable? Does that mean following City s a kind of mental illness? When you think about it, it's scarcely rational to get excited about 22 millionaires kicking a ball around a field, but all of us do, don't we?

Funnily enough, life is not 100% rational and logical. We are human beings, not computers. And pretty much everyone (consciously or not) follows some kind of philosophy, all of which could be described as 'made up bollocks.'
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I think we’re ships passing in the night mate. I’m not sure we’re disagreeing about anything in actuality.

You can also take solace in whatever you like.

Religious folk can also take solace in their god(s) of choice.

Doesn’t make any of it real though, and doesn’t mean I should give any of it an ounce of credit or credibility.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
There's no way 15% of the population regularly attend church. The CofE weekly attendance went down from 1.08 million in 2009 to 852k in 2019. In 2015, it was reported that a quarter of their churches had less than 20 people a week going and that dropped to less than 10 in rural areas. The CofE represents about half of all Christians, so you could presumably double that total if you add the various other denominations to that. But for 15% of people to regularly go to church, you'd need 16 million people to go.

One figure you might get though is anyone who has been to church in the past year, and then you get the Easter and Christmas mass crowd, which is fair enough, but you also get anyone who goes to a funeral or wedding, which is a bit more disingenuous.
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Yeah good point and you’re right. I would just add though that attending church isn’t the only method of being ‘active’.
 
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