Rishi Sunak

[mancityvstoke]

Sunak's a **** for making the joke in front of Esther Ghey but he's a **** full stop for making the joke in the first place. Keir Starmer's a **** for using Esther as a political football just to win the latest episode of PMQs and the entire sea of cunts on either side of the chamber have to be ashamed of themselves.

all cunts ...agreed

 

[maxwellblue]

I don’t really understand why there is so much anger around gender.

99.9% of the time it doesn’t affect anyone’s lives in any meaningful way.

For the remaining 0.1%, why can’t we approach the subject trying to integrate, rather than shouting at them telling them that they are wrong?

That actually is a good point and believe it or not I and probably most people do not have any issue with someone who wants to live their lives as a member of the opposite sex. A bloke can wear as meany dresses, wear as much make up, take as many drugs and even have as much surgery as he wants to make himself appear more like a woman if that is what he wants. He can change his name from Fred to Julie, I do not care and if he's happy then great. However, he will still be a man and nothing can ever change this.

The multiple gender and preferred pronoun nonsense does their cause absolutely no favours IMO.

 

[youngbob]

I don’t really understand why there is so much anger around gender.

99.9% of the time it doesn’t affect anyone’s lives in any meaningful way.

For the remaining 0.1%, why can’t we approach the subject trying to integrate, rather than shouting at them telling them that they are wrong?

The problem is that 99.9% of the UK's journalists are on Twitter and are therefore unable to avoid the issue. This is a discussion that women - cis women and trans women - should be having amongst themselves and the rest of us should broadly be leaving them to it, just checking to make sure nobody's fighting and nobody's getting hurt. But instead what's happened is that the UK's journalists have blown it out of proportion and continue to stick their oars in because their careers depend on it.

We've created a system where outrage sells more than anything else which means that every minor development or potential case study has to have a massive spotlight shone on it. As recently as 2018 the Tories supported gender self-identification. It was in their 2017 manifesto! But because politicians and leading journalists are in each other's pockets, and because all nuance has been stripped out of the discussion, the conversation has become an argument, dominated by cis women, cis men, and politicians alone.

Can you think of a prominent trans voice in all of this? So far all we seem to be hearing from are the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, Rosie Duffield, JK Rowling, Helen Joyce, and Graham Linehan. Where's the trans perspective on all this on mainstream TV? Unfortunately, for this reason, it's gone a lot like the EU referendum did, where instead of it being about our complex fiscal and social relationship with Europe, it became about "controlling our borders and sovereignty" and fuck all else.

The same thing has happened in this current debate regarding trans rights and women's rights. Instead of letting cis women and trans women work this out together, so many ignorant idiots have invaded the discussion and have turned it into a cold war. Ironically, it's become a binary argument. It helps nobody. We've gone from JK Rowling saying "I support trans peoples' right to exist but I have some concerns" to her only just avoiding calling someone a tranny during an argument on Twitter. We're so far past the point of no return with it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

He has issued a statement refusing to apologise to Esther Ghey. Good. Just more ammunition to fire back at him in a campaign - probably cost the Tories another couple of seats there - hopefully one being his own

 

[youngbob]

The multiple gender and preferred pronoun nonsense does their cause absolutely no favours IMO.

Can I ask, how much does this actually affect you in your daily life? It's just something I don't understand. I feel like there's this myth that's developed, that everyone with dyed green hair and facial piercings is waiting for someone to get their pronouns wrong so they can make a compensation claim or go to the police. You might read about it happening in the paper a couple of times a year but when does it actually happen to you, or anyone you know, or a friend of a friend?

I've unfortunately been in the trenches of this debate for about 10 years, I've met and been friends with people on both sides of this argument and across the entire gender and sexuality spectrum, but I have literally never met anyone with this complex about them that a lot of people seem to think they have. It's like the old joke "How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll tell you straight away", or those stories about a university in Canada giving a litter tray to a child who thought they were a cat. I've literally never met a vegan who I've not had to ask first and that story about the litter tray turned out to be completely made up.

It's baffling to me that you think chat about pronouns "does them no favours" and that people seem to care so very much about something that only happens to them in online spaces like Twitter and Facebook and the like. It barely, barely touches the real world because the trans population is so small (0.5% in the UK and US) but we've somehow ended up in a position where it's an issue that could swing the next general election. I keep saying that trans women and cis women could have worked this out themselves years ago, because trans people have lived alongside everyone else for as long as the concept of gender has existed in this country.

Anglo Saxons referred to trans people as 'bæddel'. Romans persecuted them. Look up people like Eleanor Rykener and Charles Hamilton. Look up the importance of trans people to art and entertainment during the Elizabethan era, and their subsequent suppression and persecution by Oliver Cromwell. They've always existed and they've always been in society in some form or another, but only since about 2016 have they become such a prominent political discussion point in mainstream society. Whatever happened to "No skin off my arse" or "Live and let live"? Traits we seem to have forgotten in this country.

 

[blueparrot]

Can I ask, how much does this actually affect you in your daily life? It's just something I don't understand. I feel like there's this myth that's developed, that everyone with dyed green hair and facial piercings is waiting for someone to get their pronouns wrong so they can make a compensation claim or go to the police. You might read about it happening in the paper a couple of times a year but when does it actually happen to you, or anyone you know, or a friend of a friend?

I've unfortunately been in the trenches of this debate for about 10 years, I've met and been friends with people on both sides of this argument and across the entire gender and sexuality spectrum, but I have literally never met anyone with this complex about them that a lot of people seem to think they have. It's like the old joke "How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll tell you straight away", or those stories about a university in Canada giving a litter tray to a child who thought they were a cat. I've literally never met a vegan who I've not had to ask first and that story about the litter tray turned out to be completely made up.

It's baffling to me that you think chat about pronouns "does them no favours" and that people seem to care so very much about something that only happens to them in online spaces like Twitter and Facebook and the like. It barely, barely touches the real world because the trans population is so small (0.5% in the UK and US) but we've somehow ended up in a position where it's an issue that could swing the next general election. I keep saying that trans women and cis women could have worked this out themselves years ago, because trans people have lived alongside everyone else for as long as the concept of gender has existed in this country.

Anglo Saxons referred to trans people as 'bæddel'. Romans persecuted them. Look up people like Eleanor Rykener and Charles Hamilton. Look up the importance of trans people to art and entertainment during the Elizabethan era, and their subsequent suppression and persecution by Oliver Cromwell. They've always existed and they've always been in society in some form or another, but only since about 2016 have they become such a prominent political discussion point in mainstream society. Whatever happened to "No skin off my arse" or "Live and let live"? Traits we seem to have forgotten in this country.

I remember when this debate blew up in Scotland last year and one of my customers ( a regular) started going into a rant about it, at the end I just had one reply " What's it to you, how does it effect you? " His only answer was 'It's just wrong'.
I did try and follow the argument in Scotland but ended up seeing good points on both sides, and decided as it didn't make any difference to my life I didn't need a strong opinion on the nuances of the argument, I'd stay out of it and leave it to those who's lives were effected by it. Sunak should also have stayed out of it.

 

[blueinsa]

I remember when this debate blew up in Scotland last year and one of my customers ( a regular) started going into a rant about it, at the end I just had one reply " What's it to you, how does it effect you? " His only answer was 'It's just wrong'.
I did try and follow the argument in Scotland but ended up seeing good points on both sides, and decided as it didn't make any difference to my life I didn't need a strong opinion on the nuances of the argument, I'd stay out of it and leave it to those who's lives were effected by it. Sunak should also have stayed out of it.

I bet Sturgeon wishes she had also stayed out of it as well.

 

[blueparrot]

I bet Sturgeon wishes she had also stayed out of it as well.

Not the point though is it? She had to make a decision on the subject it was her job.Ther is a decision to be made on Trans rights and that has to be navigated taking into account womens rights. Politicians in Scotland tried to navigate that.The decisions they made are complicated and I didn't need to have an opinion because they don't effect me.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

absolutely shameful - unworthy of his great office

Ben McKenzie is in da house .

 

[blueinsa]

Not the point though is it? She had to make a decision on the subject it was her job.Ther is a decision to be made on Trans rights and that has to be navigated taking into account womens rights. Politicians in Scotland tried to navigate that.The decisions they made are complicated and I didn't need to have an opinion because they don't effect me.

We vote these politicians in so yes, ours and their opinions really do matter.