Rishi Sunak

[youngbob]

I remember when this debate blew up in Scotland last year and one of my customers ( a regular) started going into a rant about it, at the end I just had one reply " What's it to you, how does it effect you? " His only answer was 'It's just wrong'.
I did try and follow the argument in Scotland but ended up seeing good points on both sides, and decided as it didn't make any difference to my life I didn't need a strong opinion on the nuances of the argument, I'd stay out of it and leave it to those who's lives were effected by it. Sunak should also have stayed out of it.

On the subject of "Does it really matter to me?" I've always loved these two clips of Miriam Margolyes discussing her thoughts on pronouns, gender, etc. Just shows that you're never too old to learn and always capable of showing a bit of respect and compassion in a potentially tricky situation.

 

[blueparrot]

We vote these politicians in so yes, ours and their opinions really do matter.

Does anyone vote on a parties policies on gender?A few weird people might,not many. Sometimes we can say this policy is complicated and doesn't effect my life I don't need an opinion. It's okay so say I don't understand this enough,we can't all be experts on everything. Leave it to those that are effected by it, they probably know more than me or you.

 

[blueparrot]

On the subject of "Does it really matter to me?" I've always loved these two clips of Miriam Margolyes discussing her thoughts on pronouns, gender, etc. Just shows that you're never too old to learn and always capable of showing a bit of respect and compassion in a potentially tricky situation.

I'll watch those later,thanks.

 

[maxwellblue]

Can I ask, how much does this actually affect you in your daily life? It's just something I don't understand. I feel like there's this myth that's developed, that everyone with dyed green hair and facial piercings is waiting for someone to get their pronouns wrong so they can make a compensation claim or go to the police. You might read about it happening in the paper a couple of times a year but when does it actually happen to you, or anyone you know, or a friend of a friend?

I've unfortunately been in the trenches of this debate for about 10 years, I've met and been friends with people on both sides of this argument and across the entire gender and sexuality spectrum, but I have literally never met anyone with this complex about them that a lot of people seem to think they have. It's like the old joke "How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll tell you straight away", or those stories about a university in Canada giving a litter tray to a child who thought they were a cat. I've literally never met a vegan who I've not had to ask first and that story about the litter tray turned out to be completely made up.

It's baffling to me that you think chat about pronouns "does them no favours" and that people seem to care so very much about something that only happens to them in online spaces like Twitter and Facebook and the like. It barely, barely touches the real world because the trans population is so small (0.5% in the UK and US) but we've somehow ended up in a position where it's an issue that could swing the next general election. I keep saying that trans women and cis women could have worked this out themselves years ago, because trans people have lived alongside everyone else for as long as the concept of gender has existed in this country.

Anglo Saxons referred to trans people as 'bæddel'. Romans persecuted them. Look up people like Eleanor Rykener and Charles Hamilton. Look up the importance of trans people to art and entertainment during the Elizabethan era, and their subsequent suppression and persecution by Oliver Cromwell. They've always existed and they've always been in society in some form or another, but only since about 2016 have they become such a prominent political discussion point in mainstream society. Whatever happened to "No skin off my arse" or "Live and let live"? Traits we seem to have forgotten in this country.

Fair question and the answer is "it probably doesn't affect me" but it does worry me that my grandchildren may be affected at some point by some snowflake teacher pandering to a child that says it's a cat or parents of a child that
have decided their 4 year old boy wants to be a girl and they insist the school treats him as a girl without telling the rest of the class and their parents. I don't want teachers sacked because they refer to their class full of girls as god forbid "girls" I don't want woman only spaces to be used by blokes pretending to be women. I certainly don't want women's sport to become a joke because a biological male suddenly says he's a woman just so he can win.

You referred to cis women and cis men, that is only a recent term used by the trans community to describe normal males and females so they can justify the multitude of terms they want to be known by. There are 2 genders, that's it, male and female no more. You cannot change the gender you are born too.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Fair question and the answer is "it probably doesn't affect me" but it does worry me that my grandchildren may be affected at some point by some snowflake teacher pandering to a child that says it's a cat or parents of a child that
have decided their 4 year old boy wants to be a girl and they insist the school treats him as a girl without telling the rest of the class and their parents. I don't want teachers sacked because they refer to their class full of girls as god forbid "girls" I don't want woman only spaces to be used by blokes pretending to be women. I certainly don't want women's sport to become a joke because a biological male suddenly says he's a woman just so he can win.

You referred to cis women and cis men, that is only a recent term used by the trans community to describe normal males and females so they can justify the multitude of terms they want to be known by. There are 2 genders, that's it, male and female no more. You cannot change the gender you are born too.

You're not a real person are you?

You've just put about a dozen tropes through a nonsense generator and come out with this.

You're complaining about people using cis and saying people can't change their gender. Well yes you can, gender isn't the same as biological sex. That's why we use the word gender instead of sex.

Also FYI, "cis" didn't originate with the trans community it was first coined by doctors to differentiate. Almost no one uses it unless in the context of not trans because trans is related to the conversation.

If you spent time reading longform or even medium form content rather than short snappy propaganda on social media you wouldn't be so wrong and you might change from a blithering idiot to someone who has some basic grasp of what they are talking about.

 

[Vic]

Why, while the timing of what he said could be considered insensitive, what he said was correct. Captain Hindsight, Nandy etc refuse to/or can't actually answer the question of what their definition of a woman is because they are so scared of upsetting the rainbow mafia. That is more concerning to me if he is to become our next PM.

You weren't with a woman whose trans child had been murdered. And frankly, whatever you think of gender issues, your attitude is part of the problem.

 

[Vic]

Completely agree.

Other than what he said being an utterly shit jibe at anyone, I don’t quite get the usual several pages of “OMG I’m so offended”.

He needs fucking off because he is useless at being a PM, not because he doesn’t subscribe to what some might think about Transgender individuals.

You know he only says this every week (get that, every week) because he knows it can be a wedge issue for the left - or for anyone with a modicum of understanding.

 

[youngbob]

Fair question and the answer is "it probably doesn't affect me" but it does worry me that my grandchildren may be affected at some point by some snowflake teacher pandering to a child that says it's a cat or parents of a child that
have decided their 4 year old boy wants to be a girl and they insist the school treats him as a girl without telling the rest of the class and their parents. I don't want teachers sacked because they refer to their class full of girls as god forbid "girls" I don't want woman only spaces to be used by blokes pretending to be women. I certainly don't want women's sport to become a joke because a biological male suddenly says he's a woman just so he can win.

You referred to cis women and cis men, that is only a recent term used by the trans community to describe normal males and females so they can justify the multitude of terms they want to be known by. There are 2 genders, that's it, male and female no more. You cannot change the gender you are born too.

I'm not really sure what I can say to ease your fears on this stuff, except to ask, did you take on board everything your teachers said to you? Do you remember much of it now? And of the stuff you do remember and did take on board at the time, do you still believe in it now? Did you still believe in it by the time you were 18? Children get taught a lot of things at school but they forget 90% of it and the 10% they do remember changes significantly over time as they grow up and become their own person. I was at school during the height of Section 28 but a good handful of my best friends still turned out to be gay. Just because I didn't learn about the concept homosexuality in the classroom doesn't mean I didn't learn about it in the canteen or on the playground or at the park. And none of it made me gay either because I'm not gay.

With regards to concerns about children wanting to be cats, parents forcing their child to change gender, words like "girls" being considered outdated and offensive, men dressing up as women and sneaking into women only spaces, women's sports becoming a joke because of men pretending to be women... A lot of the things you're referencing are isolated and sporadic cases blown out of all proportion. The litter box story was a hoax. Cases of parents forcing their child to change gender are incredibly rare and, on the occasions they do arise, are dealt with by social services. I've heard nothing about "girls" becoming an outdated or offensive term. The type of men who invade womens' spaces to sexually assault them don't dress up as women to do it - they just go in and assault them anyway. And, as I've explained, transgender women have existed for hundreds, if not thousands of years and the only people who've ever done any damage to womens' sports in that time are men who did things like ban women's football for 50 years.

If you can link me to stories about any of these (apparently) widespread issues without linking me to the Mail or the Telegraph, or their US equivalents, you can have a bonus point.

I'm curious, though - why aren't you concerned about transgender men breaking into mens' toilets to assault other men? Why aren't you concerned about transgender men overdosing on testosterone and dominating mens' sports? Why aren't you concerned about little girls being told by their parents that they're boys? And can I ask, with the amount of prejudice they face, why would transgender people even want to pursue life as a woman? It's generally accepted that women get a worse deal, but transgender women plough on anyway. Why? Why go through the years of pain from surgery and humiliation from mainstream society just to become a woman? The only answer I've ever been able to come up with is that something deeper is driving them. It's a need in their soul that I don't understand, but not understanding is absolutely fine because, as I keep saying, it's no skin off my arse.

I think we disagree on matters pertaining to the connections between sex and gender, and I think we disagree on whether 'cis' is an acceptable term, so I won't try and push you on those. But I can absolutely promise you that the world won't go to hell in a handcart if trans people are just allowed to get on with their lives. The concern many years ago was that legalising gay marriage would lead to marriages between man and dog. Has that happened? Another concern was that allowing marriage between different races and creeds would result in race wars and the end of white people as we know it. Has that happened? Is it likely to happen? Any progress or perceived change to the natural order is always accompanied by fears of what's on the other side, but the other side is (more often than not) absolutely fine. As long as we've got a roof over our heads and we don't blow the planet up first, we're going to be fine and our kids are going to be fine.

 

[The blue phantom]

It's all a glorified private school debating society.

We need a proper constitution, a change of how the people are represented in a way which is true reflection of where voters are politically. As well as moving out of that building into a more practical (and cheaper to run) building.

Apparently it's costing Two & Half Million Pound a week just in maintenance. That's fuckin incredible.

 

[Blue and true]

Fair question and the answer is "it probably doesn't affect me" but it does worry me that my grandchildren may be affected at some point by some snowflake teacher pandering to a child that says it's a cat or parents of a child that
have decided their 4 year old boy wants to be a girl and they insist the school treats him as a girl without telling the rest of the class and their parents. I don't want teachers sacked because they refer to their class full of girls as god forbid "girls" I don't want woman only spaces to be used by blokes pretending to be women. I certainly don't want women's sport to become a joke because a biological male suddenly says he's a woman just so he can win.

You referred to cis women and cis men, that is only a recent term used by the trans community to describe normal males and females so they can justify the multitude of terms they want to be known by. There are 2 genders, that's it, male and female no more. You cannot change the gender you are born too.

No teacher worth their salt will refer to one of their children as a cat. My missus is a teacher and the consensus amongst herself and her peers is they won't and shouldn't be pandering in such a fashion.