Scotland Independance Referendum

[ayrshire_blue]

[/s]

I think a high percentage of those who plan to vote yes are doing so on the basis that no matter how difficult it may be, it will be a Scottish Government making decisions for Scottish people, and never need to worry about Tories being in charge of the country ever again. It's a chance to break free and don't tell me that if the people of Manchester had the same opportunitythey wouldn't seriously consider it.

.

There isn't really any substance in this is there? It's the exact opposite of the Tories' suggestion that without Scottish labour seats the Tories in England would be undefeatable, and it's just as untenable.

If Scottish MPs were no longer elected to Westminster there would inevitably be a fairly major realignment of centre-left politics to avoid political annihilation, and if Scotland became independent there would be a realignment of centre-right politics in Scotland for the very same reason. There would have to be. That centre-right grouping would become the natural party of opposition and when, as sure enough would happen, the Scottish electorate got fed up with the government of the day, the centre right - the tories by another name - would be elected.

You make a very fair point there Chris, however there'd be a few parties at the centre or centre left to choose from. If there was ever a Tory type of party they'd have to be so different from the current one to stand a single chance of being elected.

And, if by chance, they were elected...it would bebecause Scottish people have voted them in and not because people from the south of England did. Why would Scotland, or anyone for that matter, wish to stay governed by a parliament which the country has almost unanimously rejected when there's an opportunity like this available?

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

A political commentator on R5 live has just said "Why is it that Alex Salmond thinks that he is always right and everybody else is wrong"

True as that undoubtedly is, I think you could apply that comment equally to any politician.
I'm off to the bookies via the pub.
Play nicely.

 

[bobmcfc]

'kin hell Fetters, calm down.

I don't know - you moan when I'm boring, then you moan when I single-handedly attempt to reach the summit of Mount Pomposity.
Boy, you're hard to please.
Just wait and see who cops both barrels later if the afternoon's racing goes horribly wrong.
This place needs a fucking transfusion, it's that anaemic.

Hope it's not me

 

[dawlish dave]

It seems to some posters on this threat to matter if Alex Salmond is from the left or right of politics to me he has always been the Huey Long of Scottish politics, all things to all men and more faces than the town hall clock, Long by the way was successful in getting people to vote for him to see him in action try youtube and see a populist demagogue in action.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

It seems to some posters on this threat to matter if Alex Salmond is from the left or right of politics to me he has always been the Huey Long of Scottish politics, all things to all men and more faces than the town hall clock, Long by the way was successful in getting people to vote for him to see him in action try youtube and see a populist demagogue in action.

It's a good thing that a yes vote isn't necessarily a vote for SNP in that case then. Much in the same sense that a no vote isn't the Scottish people voting Tory. Infact, ironically enough, a yes vote is more likely to bring an end to Salmonds reign than a no vote, in that his party will undoubtedly split and a general election would take place.

This has never been a Salmond v Cameron issue, but it is true that only Salmond has Scottish interests at heart and Westminister couldn't give a flying toss. Even those in the 'Scottish' Labour party care more about Westminister and how they are going to get there. While this is the case, Salmond is always going to be seen as the spearhead of the campaign. He's as untrustworthy and sneaky as the rest of them, but for the moment he's the leader of the only political party who give a flying toss about Scotland.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

It seems to some posters on this threat to matter if Alex Salmond is from the left or right of politics to me he has always been the Huey Long of Scottish politics, all things to all men and more faces than the town hall clock, Long by the way was successful in getting people to vote for him to see him in action try youtube and see a populist demagogue in action.

It's a good thing that a yes vote isn't necessarily a vote for SNP in that case then. Much in the same sense that a no vote isn't the Scottish people voting Tory. Infact, ironically enough, a yes vote is more likely to bring an end to Salmonds reign than a no vote, in that his party will undoubtedly split and a general election would take place.

This has never been a Salmond v Cameron issue, but it is true that only Salmond has Scottish interests at heart and Westminister couldn't give a flying toss. Even those in the 'Scottish' Labour party care more about Westminister and how they are going to get there. While this is the case, Salmond is always going to be seen as the spearhead of the campaign. He's as untrustworthy and sneaky as the rest of them, but for the moment he's the leader of the only political party who give a flying toss about Scotland.

Its a shame his independent plan for Scotland is flawed then and will be the real problem

 

[dawlish dave]

It seems to some posters on this threat to matter if Alex Salmond is from the left or right of politics to me he has always been the Huey Long of Scottish politics, all things to all men and more faces than the town hall clock, Long by the way was successful in getting people to vote for him to see him in action try youtube and see a populist demagogue in action.

It's a good thing that a yes vote isn't necessarily a vote for SNP in that case then. Much in the same sense that a no vote isn't the Scottish people voting Tory. Infact, ironically enough, a yes vote is more likely to bring an end to Salmonds reign than a no vote, in that his party will undoubtedly split and a general election would take place.

This has never been a Salmond v Cameron issue, but it is true that only Salmond has Scottish interests at heart and Westminister couldn't give a flying toss. Even those in the 'Scottish' Labour party care more about Westminister and how they are going to get there. While this is the case, Salmond is always going to be seen as the spearhead of the campaign. He's as untrustworthy and sneaky as the rest of them, but for the moment he's the leader of the only political party who give a flying toss about Scotland.

Fully understand your dislike of the Tories but just hope your not going to vote just to get rid of them I would feel the same if the home counties down here demanded a vote to dump the rest of the UK just so they would never see the left in power again.
By the way did not the Conservative and Unionist Party hold the most seats in Scotland 30 or so years ago as Gerry Adams said about another organisation "they have not gone away you know".
Hope you stay.

 

[west didsblue]

Apparently Salmond has reiterated that if an independent Scotland doesn't get a currency union with the UK, they will refuse to take on Scotland's share of the national debt.

If they don't take on their share of the national debt, they won't be entitled to their share of the UKs assets.

If they have no assets, they will be unable to support their new currency.

Salmond is supposed to have a degree in Economics but he doen't appear to understand the basics.

He really needs to provide details of how the Scottish economy will work without currency union to allow the Scottish people to make an informed choice.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Fuck 'em their beef's overrated anyway.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Apparently Salmond has reiterated that if an independent Scotland doesn't get a currency union with the UK, they will refuse to take on Scotland's share of the national debt.

If they don't take on their share of the national debt, they won't be entitled to their share of the UKs assets.

If they have no assets, they will be unable to support their new currency.

Salmond is supposed to have a degree in Economics but he doen't appear to understand the basics.

He really needs to provide details of how the Scottish economy will work without currency union to allow the Scottish people to make an informed choice.

Why should he, he can just keep making it up like he has done from the start. 90% of the people who will vote yes to independence dont have the slightest clue whats being waffled on about anyway

 

[west didsblue]

Apparently Salmond has reiterated that if an independent Scotland doesn't get a currency union with the UK, they will refuse to take on Scotland's share of the national debt.

If they don't take on their share of the national debt, they won't be entitled to their share of the UKs assets.

If they have no assets, they will be unable to support their new currency.

Salmond is supposed to have a degree in Economics but he doen't appear to understand the basics.

He really needs to provide details of how the Scottish economy will work without currency union to allow the Scottish people to make an informed choice.

Why should he, he can just keep making it up like he has done from the start. 90% of the people who will vote yes to independence dont have the slightest clue whats being waffled on about anyway

Sadly, you're probably right. This also fits in with him giving the vote to 16 and 17 year olds.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Apparently Salmond has reiterated that if an independent Scotland doesn't get a currency union with the UK, they will refuse to take on Scotland's share of the national debt.

If they don't take on their share of the national debt, they won't be entitled to their share of the UKs assets.

If they have no assets, they will be unable to support their new currency.

Salmond is supposed to have a degree in Economics but he doen't appear to understand the basics.

He really needs to provide details of how the Scottish economy will work without currency union to allow the Scottish people to make an informed choice.

Why should he, he can just keep making it up like he has done from the start. 90% of the people who will vote yes to independence dont have the slightest clue whats being waffled on about anyway

Sadly, you're probably right. This also fits in with him giving the vote to 16 and 17 year olds.

The problem with him is he wants his cake then he wants to eat it, then he wants to eat your cake, raid the biscuit tin, shag your wife and rob your mum without giving anything in return its the economic policy of Robert Mugabe without the flat out racism

 

[ayrshire_blue]

It seems to some posters on this threat to matter if Alex Salmond is from the left or right of politics to me he has always been the Huey Long of Scottish politics, all things to all men and more faces than the town hall clock, Long by the way was successful in getting people to vote for him to see him in action try youtube and see a populist demagogue in action.

It's a good thing that a yes vote isn't necessarily a vote for SNP in that case then. Much in the same sense that a no vote isn't the Scottish people voting Tory. Infact, ironically enough, a yes vote is more likely to bring an end to Salmonds reign than a no vote, in that his party will undoubtedly split and a general election would take place.

This has never been a Salmond v Cameron issue, but it is true that only Salmond has Scottish interests at heart and Westminister couldn't give a flying toss. Even those in the 'Scottish' Labour party care more about Westminister and how they are going to get there. While this is the case, Salmond is always going to be seen as the spearhead of the campaign. He's as untrustworthy and sneaky as the rest of them, but for the moment he's the leader of the only political party who give a flying toss about Scotland.

Fully understand your dislike of the Tories but just hope your not going to vote just to get rid of them I would feel the same if the home counties down here demanded a vote to dump the rest of the UK just so they would never see the left in power again.
By the way did not the Conservative and Unionist Party hold the most seats in Scotland 30 or so years ago as Gerry Adams said about another organisation "they have not gone away you know".
Hope you stay.

It's not just the Tories. Milliband and Balls are nobetter and Johanna Lamont, the face of the supposedly Scottish Labour party are no better. I pretty much share Russell Brand's widely publicized views on Politics as a whole these days.

Boyblue I completely disagree that 90% of people voting yes don't know what they're voting for. Most of the yes voters I've spoken to all have valid genuine reasons.

16 and 17 year olds are going to be the future of any independent country. They've reached an age where they are mature enough (for the majority) to be trusted to make a decision they feel will benefit them in the future. I don't see the problem in them having a say. A lot of them will currently be studying topics such as Modern Studies in school and are potentially better informed of the situation than those over the age of 18.

I'm still undecided as yet, btw, but there are good arguments on both sides and I'm not a fan of those in the yes camp who think those in the no camp don't know what they're doing and vice versa.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

It's a good thing that a yes vote isn't necessarily a vote for SNP in that case then. Much in the same sense that a no vote isn't the Scottish people voting Tory. Infact, ironically enough, a yes vote is more likely to bring an end to Salmonds reign than a no vote, in that his party will undoubtedly split and a general election would take place.

This has never been a Salmond v Cameron issue, but it is true that only Salmond has Scottish interests at heart and Westminister couldn't give a flying toss. Even those in the 'Scottish' Labour party care more about Westminister and how they are going to get there. While this is the case, Salmond is always going to be seen as the spearhead of the campaign. He's as untrustworthy and sneaky as the rest of them, but for the moment he's the leader of the only political party who give a flying toss about Scotland.

Fully understand your dislike of the Tories but just hope your not going to vote just to get rid of them I would feel the same if the home counties down here demanded a vote to dump the rest of the UK just so they would never see the left in power again.
By the way did not the Conservative and Unionist Party hold the most seats in Scotland 30 or so years ago as Gerry Adams said about another organisation "they have not gone away you know".
Hope you stay.

It's not just the Tories. Milliband and Balls are nobetter and Johanna Lamont, the face of the supposedly Scottish Labour party are no better. I pretty much share Russell Brand's widely publicized views on Politics as a whole these days.

Boyblue I completely disagree that 90% of people voting yes don't know what they're voting for. Most of the yes voters I've spoken to all have valid genuine reasons.

16 and 17 year olds are going to be the future of any independent country. They've reached an age where they are mature enough (for the majority) to be trusted to make a decision they feel will benefit them in the future. I don't see the problem in them having a say. A lot of them will currently be studying topics such as Modern Studies in school and are potentially better informed of the situation than those over the age of 18.

I'm still undecided as yet, btw, but there are good arguments on both sides and I'm not a fan of those in the yes camp who think those in the no camp don't know what they're doing and vice versa.

I would like to hear them mate. Like I said im just sorry that its Salmond leading you in to this vote because he makes George Osbourne seem economically smart

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Because there badly fascist.

 

[west didsblue]

It's not just the Tories. Milliband and Balls are nobetter and Johanna Lamont, the face of the supposedly Scottish Labour party are no better. I pretty much share Russell Brand's widely publicized views on Politics as a whole these days.
Boyblue I completely disagree that 90% of people voting yes don't know what they're voting for. Most of the yes voters I've spoken to all have valid genuine reasons.

16 and 17 year olds are going to be the future of any independent country. They've reached an age where they are mature enough (for the majority) to be trusted to make a decision they feel will benefit them in the future. I don't see the problem in them having a say. A lot of them will currently be studying topics such as Modern Studies in school and are potentially better informed of the situation than those over the age of 18.

I'm still undecided as yet, btw, but there are good arguments on both sides and I'm not a fan of those in the yes camp who think those in the no camp don't know what they're doing and vice versa.

If you share Brand's views I presume you won't be voting then.<br /><br />-- Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:52 pm --<br /><br />

Because there badly fascist.

Who is?

 

[ayrshire_blue]

It's not just the Tories. Milliband and Balls are nobetter and Johanna Lamont, the face of the supposedly Scottish Labour party are no better. I pretty much share Russell Brand's widely publicized views on Politics as a whole these days.
Boyblue I completely disagree that 90% of people voting yes don't know what they're voting for. Most of the yes voters I've spoken to all have valid genuine reasons.

16 and 17 year olds are going to be the future of any independent country. They've reached an age where they are mature enough (for the majority) to be trusted to make a decision they feel will benefit them in the future. I don't see the problem in them having a say. A lot of them will currently be studying topics such as Modern Studies in school and are potentially better informed of the situation than those over the age of 18.

I'm still undecided as yet, btw, but there are good arguments on both sides and I'm not a fan of those in the yes camp who think those in the no camp don't know what they're doing and vice versa.

If you share Brand's views I presume you won't be voting then.

-- Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:52 pm --

Because there badly fascist.

Who is?

If there was a general election tomorrow I wouldn't be voting, no. However the independence vote is completely different and has the potential to be either extremely positive or damaging so once I've made my decision I will be voting on that.

Fully understand your dislike of the Tories but just hope your not going to vote just to get rid of them I would feel the same if the home counties down here demanded a vote to dump the rest of the UK just so they would never see the left in power again.
By the way did not the Conservative and Unionist Party hold the most seats in Scotland 30 or so years ago as Gerry Adams said about another organisation "they have not gone away you know".
Hope you stay.

It's not just the Tories. Milliband and Balls are nobetter and Johanna Lamont, the face of the supposedly Scottish Labour party are no better. I pretty much share Russell Brand's widely publicized views on Politics as a whole these days.

Boyblue I completely disagree that 90% of people voting yes don't know what they're voting for. Most of the yes voters I've spoken to all have valid genuine reasons.

16 and 17 year olds are going to be the future of any independent country. They've reached an age where they are mature enough (for the majority) to be trusted to make a decision they feel will benefit them in the future. I don't see the problem in them having a say. A lot of them will currently be studying topics such as Modern Studies in school and are potentially better informed of the situation than those over the age of 18.

I'm still undecided as yet, btw, but there are good arguments on both sides and I'm not a fan of those in the yes camp who think those in the no camp don't know what they're doing and vice versa.

I would like to hear them mate. Like I said im just sorry that its Salmond leading you in to this vote because he makes George Osbourne seem economically smart

I've copied and pasted this post from someone elsewhere. I've not made my decision yet so they're not my reasons, but there's not much in there to disagree with;

"If the English peoples really knew about what goes on in Scotland they would not be so quick to condemn Scottish Independence. There are of course many reasons that they want Scots to stay in the Union, however, there is a lack of what is actually good for Scots.

Scots have been constantly been considered as benefit junkies and the like, and are heavily subsidised by Westminster.
Figure now prove, it is certainly NOT the case, Scots pay more than their share of tax revenues and actually get less back.

We should be a rich country, we are not, we have ever more poor roads, and generally poor infrastructure.
In an Independent country this will be a priority to be addressed, it is not going to happen within the Union, who are content in keeping Scots down.

Taxes from our shoreline go to Westminster unlike other parts of the UK.
We also have many area's that would shine more with Independence, more exports, more agriculture, more renewable energy, more fishing industry. It goes on.

We would no longer have our soldiers die in illegal wars.

We no longer would have Trident within 30 miles of our major population and city of Glasgow. Note Westminster does not want Trident down there, but as usual it is ok if Scots are at risk.

So, no, Scots are not too wee, not too weak, nor too stupid. Independence will lead to a Scotland the rUK can learn from.

There is no doubt that we also seek to be close friends with our neighbours, any bad feeling in Scotland is directed at Westminster politicians not the peoples of England, Wales or N. Ireland.
However, the right to form our own future is undeniable, and it is something the doubters should think of. It is called democracy, something that is becoming more desirable to everyone in the Uk, if not Westminster"

^ ^

 

[dawlish dave]

To ayrshire-blue. It seems from your last post your mind is almost made up so all the best, but if its to be a break up well sorry the remaining UK and N I will have their own views this will be put forward by the government of the day such as you can have the pound as in the way some countries use the US dollar but it will not be in anyway your pound. A small point but hope to see separate time zones this will put a end to it going dark at 4.0 in the winter down here.

 

[Balti]

By all means go. Go with our blessing if that is what you choose.

Just don't expect us to incur any risk or expense to our finances because of your own selfish interests. You must do what is best for Scotland. Likewise we must do what is in our own selfish interests for those that remain in the UK.

Supporting the banks and public finances of a foreign nation running its own fiscal affairs is clearly not in our interests.

If you go you stand alone in the world and good luck to you.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4AejrA9BFg[/youtube]

What are Scotland's main exports? apart from the oil on the North sea and this baby

They'll end up going the same way as Ireland.