They also have the option of setting a parallel currency like the Irish punt which will give them most of the advantages but more control.cibaman said:Ancient Citizen said:I'd like to know how the 'Yes' voters are so convinced they'll keep the pound, as far as I'm aware, there is an all party consensus that precludes that. Alistair Darling says they will? Not heard that, but even if he did, he's not the one now making the decision, and all I've heard from Salmond is obfuscation and bluster. So all you 'Yessers' please enlighten us.
Darling admitted that Scotland couldn't be prevented from using the pound, its a freely traded currency, any country could use it. Just as some countries use the US dollar.
But they would be using it without any control over it. No say on interest rates, no central bank acting as lender of last resort.
You could say that the Scots don't have much say on interest rates now. But they do have certain protections being part of the UK. They cant actually go bust unless the UK as a whole does. As an independent country with no control over interest rate policy that's a much bigger risk. As is the possibility of a recession that they cant get out of by lowering interest rates.
Darling seems to have overplayed his hand on the currency issue, with Scots now seeming to think that retaining the pound without a currency union would be a victory.
We threw the Sassanach out nearly a century ago nim. The north won't be voting for independence any time soon either, the unionists would be afraid we'd annex them (although they have stronger links to the Scots than the English, might get them thinking).nimrod said:tolmie said:at the turn of the year didnt think it was going to happen, but I think it will be a YES now
Im all for it and will be voting yes, bit of democracy with who we actually vote for running the country, Wales will be next if we get a yes to i think!
then the paddy's and theyre pigs
ayrshire_blue said:metalblue said:ayrshire_blue said:For about 2 years I was undecided but leaning towards no. This was until around a year ago - or maybe less - and at the current time I can't figure out why I would even be so fucking stupid to even contemplate voting no.
Better together campaign has been an absolute disaster from the beginning. Scaremongering after scaremongering.
We'll keep the pound (confirmed by Alistair Darling), our pensions will be secured, and we can afford it. This has all been covered in detail.
All with the added bonus that we will get to make decisions which suit our own bloody country rather than London and the South East.
No more Tories (unless of course, WE actually vote for them!!).
Since 1942 142 countries have voted for independence. Not one of them has ever wanted to give it up yet neither one of the 142 countries have been in such a position to vote for independence as Scotland are at the current time.
There's more to fear in the event of a no vote (Tories, Ukip, EU referendum etc etc) than anything in a yes vote.
"Of course Scotland could be a successfull independent nation" - Even David fucking Cameron admits it.
Vote yes!
I'd honestly love to know how
Scotland is roughly 8% of the country per population yet contributes 9% to the economy. In other words - subsidising the rUK. Of course, we have higher spending than the rUK but that v considered it's still less than we generate.
In an independent country the need (and want) for Scotland's most popular exports aren't going to suddenly decrease. Whisky, Oil, Tourism and other revenue streams will continue to be gained as they always have done.
Never to mention the huge savings on nuclear weapons/trident which would be put towards issues closer to home for example the likes of food banks which are growing in numbers month by month.
The savings on not invading every country in the world - whether worthwhile or not - can be put to use IN SCOTLAND.
The overriding factor in all my reasons for voting yes is having a say in our own future. Scotland's vote has never meant anything in a general election. Vote Labour - get the Tories. Vote SNP - Get a Tory/lib dem coalition. What's next? Vote SNP and get stuck with Cameron and Farage? Not for me thanks. And no, it's not about every individual getting the government they want but creating a far fairer and democratic society which can be represented by a government voted for by the population it serves.
Nobody's saying it won't be without risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And the better together campaign have came up with absolutely NOTHING to suggest Scots could suffer in the result of a YES vote. Instead, they've made half hearted efforts at telling us why we're better giving Westminster our money and letting them make our decisions for us.
"The possibility of being better is better in itself than the fear of being worse".
Kun Aguero said:Cons
If they gain independence they will have to pay to use the NHS.
They will have to use the Euro.
Salmond seems a complete bellwhift.
Pros
Cameron's a knob.
cibaman said:Salmond has wanted to use the euro all along. its unfortunate for him that the referendum coincided with the period when it is particularly unfashionable to speak favourably about the Euro. And, of course, he can no more guarantee that Scotland can use the euro than they can the pound.
But using the euro would be the best option for Scotland by a million miles.
Sorry, but I think that many on the pro independence side have fallen for the bluster that Salmond has used regarding currency union, in that England would 'have' to agree to it. We would be mad to allow, what would be a completely foreign nation, to implement it's own strategies and spending programmes, in the sure and certain knowledge that they have the Bank of England and the rest of the British state to step in if things go awry. To use an oft quoted analogy from the 'No' camp, that would be like divorcing your partner and allowing them full and unfettered use of your credit card.ayrshire_blue said:cibaman said:Salmond has wanted to use the euro all along. its unfortunate for him that the referendum coincided with the period when it is particularly unfashionable to speak favourably about the Euro. And, of course, he can no more guarantee that Scotland can use the euro than they can the pound.
But using the euro would be the best option for Scotland by a million miles.
Don't understand any of this mate. The country would use the pound, not the Euro.
On the subject that it wouldn't be accepted by England and Westminster I find that very difficult to believe. Of course they're not about to negotiate Scotland's interdependence from the UK so the only ammo they have available to them at the current time is to say that "they may not get to use the pound as this would have to be agreed".
Not agreeing it would damage England and rUK as much as Scotland. Giving the trade and business relations between the two countries, Westminster not allowing Scotland to use the pound would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
I'm not a Salmond fan. I'm not an SNP fan. But I'm with him on the currency issue. It will be the pound, and there's no need for a plan B. A plan B will be ready in any case, but it won't be required. If it is, the rUK would be getting shafted along with Scotland.
In any case, sadly I find it almost a certainty to be a No vote. I'm not saying it's the case for everyone, as everyone has their own reasons which are as valid as mine or anyone else's, but we live in a nation of shithouses brainwashed into thinking we're not good enough, too small and too stupid, when it's not the case at all. It won't be easy, but having a say over our own future's will be worth it.
The way things are going, food banks all around us while the rich continue to get richer, it's not right. I can't bare the thought of having to tell my own grandchildren in years to come that I didn't vote yes to give them half a chance at life.
Vote yes, then vote out the snp (who will probably disbanden in the event of a yes vote anyway since the party's one common goal has been achieved).
I see the vote being close but in the end reflecting current polls. No will win by 53/54% - 46/47% imo. Bookmakers odds on No - 1/4 Yes - 3/1. Just my prediction.
Just a side issue but on the same topic, it pisses me off that for some the vote is coming down to what fucking football club in Glasgow an individual supports. By in large, a huge majority of Sevco fans are proving themselves to be the fuckwits that they are giving their 100% 'queen and country' commitment purely because it's in the football club they support's traditions and haven't been able to think for themselves how it will affect them and future generations.
On Saturday around 1,000 of their fans were under a huge "vote No" banner at Ibrox, call me skeptikal but given that polls are so close and opinions seem to differ from one person to the next up here I find it really really hard to believe that all 1,000 or so of these people just so happen to coincidently be thinking the same way and not just voting that way because their fellow zombies are.
Keep politics out of football altogether ffs, it shouldn't matter a jot which football club you support when it comes to an independence referendum. I'd have more respect for a Celtic fan - or anyone else for that matter - voting No for their own reasons than anyone just following a crowd.
This isn't the case for all sevco fans btw, not a dig at each and every one of them, but as a whole the clubs fans are using the club and it's traditions as reasons for a vote - which is shocking.
They can use the Euro if they want, there's absolutely nothing stopping them, just as there's nothing stopping them from using the pound, or the U.S. dollar. They'll just have no influence over the management and administration of the currency. A currency union and deciding to use an existing form of currency are 2 completely different things.cibaman said:Salmond has wanted to use the euro all along. its unfortunate for him that the referendum coincided with the period when it is particularly unfashionable to speak favourably about the Euro. And, of course, he can no more guarantee that Scotland can use the euro than they can the pound.
But using the euro would be the best option for Scotland by a million miles.
pace89 said:The case for independence is simply flag waving nationalism dressed up as progressive politics. The problems that afflict the poverty stricken in Glasgow are more or less the same as those faced by people in Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Cardiff etc. The challenges facing fishing communities in the west of Scotland are remarkably similar to those for equivalent communities in Cornwall and Devon. The ultimate argument of the nationalists is that there should be no formal political, economic or social relationship (other than currency union for the convenience of the Scottish government) with any other part of this island. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.
If the Scots want redistribution of wealth then they should be fighting for wealth to be redistributed from the richest part of the Union (London and the South East) to the poorest parts which including Scotland but also northern England, the Welsh Valleys and much of Northern Ireland.
The economic case for independence is nonsensical. Basically the entire tax and spend policy depends on massively optimistic returns on oil without any loss to the economy as a result of British public sector disappearing. The financial services industry is crucial to the Scottish economy but mainly because it’s a cheap way of serving a massive customer base is in England. How many people in England with assets managed by Scottish firms will want a foreign jurisdiction to oversee control of their wealth? Not many I would guess which means a massive disinvestment from the Scottish economy. Similarly there’s no way the Scottish Government could cover the liabilities of Scottish banks unless all their English customers move elsewhere. Or unless all the Scottish banks move elsewhere.
Scotland is a country that historically was divided by religion but is now equally divided by nationalism. The SNP government had the choice of pushing for Devo-max, which the vast majority support and would have united Scotland, but instead chose this process. Whatever the outcome it is going to be close and it is becoming increasingly bitter on each side by the day.
The SNP are no better than UKIP it’s just Westminster is the straw man in the independence debate where as its ‘Brussels’ and the EU Commission for people who want out of the EU. It’s depressing that more people can’t see this for the shoddy power grab that it is.
It is certainly a tad inflammatory, and contains not only some vague generalisations, and a few pre emptive assumptions, but, in the main I think it's roughly accurate. What the more strident Nationalists (not yourself) have found bemusing, is the support they get for their cause south of Hadrians Wall.ayrshire_blue said:pace89 said:The case for independence is simply flag waving nationalism dressed up as progressive politics. The problems that afflict the poverty stricken in Glasgow are more or less the same as those faced by people in Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Cardiff etc. The challenges facing fishing communities in the west of Scotland are remarkably similar to those for equivalent communities in Cornwall and Devon. The ultimate argument of the nationalists is that there should be no formal political, economic or social relationship (other than currency union for the convenience of the Scottish government) with any other part of this island. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.
If the Scots want redistribution of wealth then they should be fighting for wealth to be redistributed from the richest part of the Union (London and the South East) to the poorest parts which including Scotland but also northern England, the Welsh Valleys and much of Northern Ireland.
The economic case for independence is nonsensical. Basically the entire tax and spend policy depends on massively optimistic returns on oil without any loss to the economy as a result of British public sector disappearing. The financial services industry is crucial to the Scottish economy but mainly because it’s a cheap way of serving a massive customer base is in England. How many people in England with assets managed by Scottish firms will want a foreign jurisdiction to oversee control of their wealth? Not many I would guess which means a massive disinvestment from the Scottish economy. Similarly there’s no way the Scottish Government could cover the liabilities of Scottish banks unless all their English customers move elsewhere. Or unless all the Scottish banks move elsewhere.
Scotland is a country that historically was divided by religion but is now equally divided by nationalism. The SNP government had the choice of pushing for Devo-max, which the vast majority support and would have united Scotland, but instead chose this process. Whatever the outcome it is going to be close and it is becoming increasingly bitter on each side by the day.
The SNP are no better than UKIP it’s just Westminster is the straw man in the independence debate where as its ‘Brussels’ and the EU Commission for people who want out of the EU. It’s depressing that more people can’t see this for the shoddy power grab that it is.
You should send this in a wee letter to the BT campaign. Never read as much nonsensical patronising snide in all my life.