Scottish independence

[ayrshire_blue]

For about 2 years I was undecided but leaning towards no. This was until around a year ago - or maybe less - and at the current time I can't figure out why I would even be so fucking stupid to even contemplate voting no.

Better together campaign has been an absolute disaster from the beginning. Scaremongering after scaremongering.

We'll keep the pound (confirmed by Alistair Darling), our pensions will be secured, and we can afford it. This has all been covered in detail.

All with the added bonus that we will get to make decisions which suit our own bloody country rather than London and the South East.

No more Tories (unless of course, WE actually vote for them!!).

Since 1942 142 countries have voted for independence. Not one of them has ever wanted to give it up yet neither one of the 142 countries have been in such a position to vote for independence as Scotland are at the current time.

There's more to fear in the event of a no vote (Tories, Ukip, EU referendum etc etc) than anything in a yes vote.

"Of course Scotland could be a successfull independent nation" - Even David fucking Cameron admits it.

Vote yes!

I'd honestly love to know how

Scotland is roughly 8% of the country per population yet contributes 9% to the economy. In other words - subsidising the rUK. Of course, we have higher spending than the rUK but that v considered it's still less than we generate.

In an independent country the need (and want) for Scotland's most popular exports aren't going to suddenly decrease. Whisky, Oil, Tourism and other revenue streams will continue to be gained as they always have done.

Never to mention the huge savings on nuclear weapons/trident which would be put towards issues closer to home for example the likes of food banks which are growing in numbers month by month.

The savings on not invading every country in the world - whether worthwhile or not - can be put to use IN SCOTLAND.

The overriding factor in all my reasons for voting yes is having a say in our own future. Scotland's vote has never meant anything in a general election. Vote Labour - get the Tories. Vote SNP - Get a Tory/lib dem coalition. What's next? Vote SNP and get stuck with Cameron and Farage? Not for me thanks. And no, it's not about every individual getting the government they want but creating a far fairer and democratic society which can be represented by a government voted for by the population it serves.

Nobody's saying it won't be without risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And the better together campaign have came up with absolutely NOTHING to suggest Scots could suffer in the result of a YES vote. Instead, they've made half hearted efforts at telling us why we're better giving Westminster our money and letting them make our decisions for us.

"The possibility of being better is better in itself than the fear of being worse".

 

[TTTCITYBHOY]

Mrs TTT watched some debate on TV the night.
Honestly,they're all fukn idiots.
Elaine C Smith. Aka Mrs Rab C Nesbit telling me what to fukn go for.
Nah,I'll stick with my allegiance to Manchester thanks very much Mary doll :)


NO

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Mrs TTT watched some debate on TV the night.
Honestly,they're all fukn idiots.
Elaine C Smith. Aka Mrs Rab C Nesbit telling me what to fukn go for.
Nah,I'll stick with my allegiance to Westminsterthanks very much Mary doll :)


NO

Edited for accuracy mate ;) I'd guess a good chunk of Manchester are none too pleased with the completely unequal society which is ever-growing in favour of London and the South east either.

 

[TTTCITYBHOY]

Mrs TTT watched some debate on TV the night.
Honestly,they're all fukn idiots.
Elaine C Smith. Aka Mrs Rab C Nesbit telling me what to fukn go for.
Nah,I'll stick with my allegiance to Westminsterthanks very much Mary doll :)


NO

Edited for accuracy mate ;) I'd guess a good chunk of Manchester are none too pleased with the completely unequal society which is ever-growing in favour of London and the South east either.

Tbh mate,I fukn hate politics/politicians the whole shebang.
If we could draw a line between say,,,,the midlands for example.
Then we could have a decent North/South divide.

 

[BlueHammer85]

The more I think about it. The more I don't give a sh*t ... Is there many normal day to day English people actually concerned about this ? If they want independence good on them, if they don't good on them.

 

[TTTCITYBHOY]

The more I think about it. The more I don't give a sh*t ... Is there many normal day to day English people actually concerned about this ? If they want independence good on them, if they don't good on them.

You sound like an angry man

 

[BlueHammer85]

The more I think about it. The more I don't give a sh*t ... Is there many normal day to day English people actually concerned about this ? If they want independence good on them, if they don't good on them.

You sound like an angry man

Thought that was quite a placid post

 

[TTTCITYBHOY]

The more I think about it. The more I don't give a sh*t ... Is there many normal day to day English people actually concerned about this ? If they want independence good on them, if they don't good on them.

You sound like an angry man

Thought that was quite a placid post

Probably the same as you Mark.....as in don't give a shit tbh.
Bad result on Saturday mate :(
For both.

 

[Innsbruckblue]

I still don't understand the idea of "it's Scotland's oil". If I understand it correctly, those North Sea fields are in UK waters. If Scotland leaves the UK, then I don't see how Scotland has a legitimate claim to them without some serious bargaining with Westminster.
And by the way, I am Scottish, before anyone starts.
Would be nice to know more facts about the North Sea situation.

 

[Len Rum]

For about 2 years I was undecided but leaning towards no. This was until around a year ago - or maybe less - and at the current time I can't figure out why I would even be so fucking stupid to even contemplate voting no.

Better together campaign has been an absolute disaster from the beginning. Scaremongering after scaremongering.

We'll keep the pound (confirmed by Alistair Darling), our pensions will be secured, and we can afford it. This has all been covered in detail.

All with the added bonus that we will get to make decisions which suit our own bloody country rather than London and the South East.

No more Tories (unless of course, WE actually vote for them!!).

Since 1942 142 countries have voted for independence. Not one of them has ever wanted to give it up yet neither one of the 142 countries have been in such a position to vote for independence as Scotland are at the current time.

There's more to fear in the event of a no vote (Tories, Ukip, EU referendum etc etc) than anything in a yes vote.

"Of course Scotland could be a successfull independent nation" - Even David fucking Cameron admits it.

Vote yes!

I'd honestly love to know how

Scotland is roughly 8% of the country per population yet contributes 9% to the economy. In other words - subsidising the rUK. Of course, we have higher spending than the rUK but that v considered it's still less than we generate.

In an independent country the need (and want) for Scotland's most popular exports aren't going to suddenly decrease. Whisky, Oil, Tourism and other revenue streams will continue to be gained as they always have done.

Never to mention the huge savings on nuclear weapons/trident which would be put towards issues closer to home for example the likes of food banks which are growing in numbers month by month.

The savings on not invading every country in the world - whether worthwhile or not - can be put to use IN SCOTLAND.

The overriding factor in all my reasons for voting yes is having a say in our own future. Scotland's vote has never meant anything in a general election. Vote Labour - get the Tories. Vote SNP - Get a Tory/lib dem coalition. What's next? Vote SNP and get stuck with Cameron and Farage? Not for me thanks. And no, it's not about every individual getting the government they want but creating a far fairer and democratic society which can be represented by a government voted for by the population it serves.

Nobody's saying it won't be without risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And the better together campaign have came up with absolutely NOTHING to suggest Scots could suffer in the result of a YES vote. Instead, they've made half hearted efforts at telling us why we're better giving Westminster our money and letting them make our decisions for us.

"The possibility of being better is better in itself than the fear of being worse".

Great post.
The Yes vote should be about wanting to control your own destiny despite the risks.
I think the risks may be greater than you think and a lot of them are unknown ( that also applies to England by the way).
The position of the monarchy does not seem to have been mentioned a lot in the campaign.
I assume an independent Scotland could become a republic, subject to a referendum?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I'd like to know how the 'Yes' voters are so convinced they'll keep the pound, as far as I'm aware, there is an all party consensus that precludes that. Alistair Darling says they will? Not heard that, but even if he did, he's not the one now making the decision, and all I've heard from Salmond is obfuscation and bluster. So all you 'Yessers' please enlighten us.

 

[Bill Walker]

I'd honestly love to know how

Scotland is roughly 8% of the country per population yet contributes 9% to the economy. In other words - subsidising the rUK. Of course, we have higher spending than the rUK but that v considered it's still less than we generate.

In an independent country the need (and want) for Scotland's most popular exports aren't going to suddenly decrease. Whisky, Oil, Tourism and other revenue streams will continue to be gained as they always have done.

Never to mention the huge savings on nuclear weapons/trident which would be put towards issues closer to home for example the likes of food banks which are growing in numbers month by month.

The savings on not invading every country in the world - whether worthwhile or not - can be put to use IN SCOTLAND.

The overriding factor in all my reasons for voting yes is having a say in our own future. Scotland's vote has never meant anything in a general election. Vote Labour - get the Tories. Vote SNP - Get a Tory/lib dem coalition. What's next? Vote SNP and get stuck with Cameron and Farage? Not for me thanks. And no, it's not about every individual getting the government they want but creating a far fairer and democratic society which can be represented by a government voted for by the population it serves.

Nobody's saying it won't be without risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And the better together campaign have came up with absolutely NOTHING to suggest Scots could suffer in the result of a YES vote. Instead, they've made half hearted efforts at telling us why we're better giving Westminster our money and letting them make our decisions for us.

"The possibility of being better is better in itself than the fear of being worse".

Great post.
The Yes vote should be about wanting to control your own destiny despite the risks.
I think the risks may be greater than you think and a lot of them are unknown ( that also applies to England by the way).
The position of the monarchy does not seem to have been mentioned a lot in the campaign.
I assume an independent Scotland could become a republic, subject to a referendum?

I hope the vote is NO

but if I was a jock Id want to bin those toffee nosed fucking leeches 1st order of business

along with all the other Dukes Earls Sirs Lords etc etc its all shite

 

[tolmie]

at the turn of the year didnt think it was going to happen, but I think it will be a YES now

Im all for it and will be voting yes, bit of democracy with who we actually vote for running the country, Wales will be next if we get a yes to i think!

 

[Bill Walker]

at the turn of the year didnt think it was going to happen, but I think it will be a YES now

Im all for it and will be voting yes, bit of democracy with who we actually vote for running the country, Wales will be next if we get a yes to i think!

then the paddy's and theyre pigs

 

[yerwot?]

why would the tory party be against indendent Scotland? By all accounts they would be rid of the main opposition party in the commons if the yes voters win. It's a cast-iron certainty it wont be out of concern for Scotland. Maybe they worry about losing grouse moors, or a sort of reverse version of the ''clearances'' (how f'kin sweet that would be). Maybe they fear those not within the golden circle of the M25 getting ideas and demanding an end to london dominating every thing of any consequence and demanding a more democratic governance (perish the thought)
It makes sense for the tory-lite nu-labour lot to push the no vote, but they are motivated by selfish reasons, not a genuine care for the people of Scotland.
From a purely personal point of view, a yes vote would end forever the chance of the Glasgow clubs playing in the prem.

 

[TGR]

at the turn of the year didnt think it was going to happen, but I think it will be a YES now

Im all for it and will be voting yes, bit of democracy with who we actually vote for running the country, Wales will be next if we get a yes to i think!

Wales simply do not have and cannot have an economy to support and sustain independence - and never will.
I'm 100% for complete indpendence if these countries want it on the basis of NO handouts or subsidies from Westminster whatosever.
Bring it on!

 

[cibaman]

I'd like to know how the 'Yes' voters are so convinced they'll keep the pound, as far as I'm aware, there is an all party consensus that precludes that. Alistair Darling says they will? Not heard that, but even if he did, he's not the one now making the decision, and all I've heard from Salmond is obfuscation and bluster. So all you 'Yessers' please enlighten us.

Darling admitted that Scotland couldn't be prevented from using the pound, its a freely traded currency, any country could use it. Just as some countries use the US dollar.

But they would be using it without any control over it. No say on interest rates, no central bank acting as lender of last resort.

You could say that the Scots don't have much say on interest rates now. But they do have certain protections being part of the UK. They cant actually go bust unless the UK as a whole does. As an independent country with no control over interest rate policy that's a much bigger risk. As is the possibility of a recession that they cant get out of by lowering interest rates.

Darling seems to have overplayed his hand on the currency issue, with Scots now seeming to think that retaining the pound without a currency union would be a victory.

 

[TGR]

I'd like to know how the 'Yes' voters are so convinced they'll keep the pound, as far as I'm aware, there is an all party consensus that precludes that. Alistair Darling says they will? Not heard that, but even if he did, he's not the one now making the decision, and all I've heard from Salmond is obfuscation and bluster. So all you 'Yessers' please enlighten us.

Darling admitted that Scotland couldn't be prevented from using the pound, its a freely traded currency, any country could use it. Just as some countries use the US dollar.

But they would be using it without any control over it. No say on interest rates, no central bank acting as lender of last resort.

You could say that the Scots don't have much say on interest rates now. But they do have certain protections being part of the UK. They cant actually go bust unless the UK as a whole does. As an independent country with no control over interest rate policy that's a much bigger risk. As is the possibility of a recession that they cant get out of by lowering interest rates.

Darling seems to have overplayed his hand on the currency issue, with Scots now seeming to think that retaining the pound without a currency union would be a victory.

Darling has played it perfectly.
Just perfect.

 

[Bill Walker]

at the turn of the year didnt think it was going to happen, but I think it will be a YES now

Im all for it and will be voting yes, bit of democracy with who we actually vote for running the country, Wales will be next if we get a yes to i think!

Wales simply do not have and cannot have an economy to support and sustain independence - and never will.
I'm 100% for complete indpendence if these countries want it on the basis of NO handouts or subsidies from Westminster whatosever.
Bring it on!

dunno, probably richer than NZ and more sheep too

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I'd like to know how the 'Yes' voters are so convinced they'll keep the pound, as far as I'm aware, there is an all party consensus that precludes that. Alistair Darling says they will? Not heard that, but even if he did, he's not the one now making the decision, and all I've heard from Salmond is obfuscation and bluster. So all you 'Yessers' please enlighten us.

Darling admitted that Scotland couldn't be prevented from using the pound, its a freely traded currency, any country could use it. Just as some countries use the US dollar.

But they would be using it without any control over it. No say on interest rates, no central bank acting as lender of last resort.

You could say that the Scots don't have much say on interest rates now. But they do have certain protections being part of the UK. They cant actually go bust unless the UK as a whole does. As an independent country with no control over interest rate policy that's a much bigger risk. As is the possibility of a recession that they cant get out of by lowering interest rates.

Darling seems to have overplayed his hand on the currency issue, with Scots now seeming to think that retaining the pound without a currency union would be a victory.

So, in effect, there is to be no currency union, but the Scots can call their currency whatever they like. This is and will be their abiding problem, if Salmonds drunken sailor spending spree, planned after separation, follows the same inevitable pattern of others, such as France, who are now in the shit, but have the euro (Germans) to bail them out, it will turn his Scottish nirvana into a basket case.