Scottish independence

[Paul Lake's Left Knee]

 

[sir baconface]

A lot of people on here seem to be in the No camp. Just wondering how many are also pro the European Union.

I ask this because it seems odd that many English seem to want to deny Scotland the chance to leave a union while at the same time would be most happy for Britain to leave the Union of Europe.

We in England don't want to deny Scotland anything , it's not in our gift to do so and we're quite happy for you to have a vote for self- determination.
What most of us want is for the union to stay together as a lot of us feel it works pretty well together.
The people south of the border who want England out of Europe are a small minority of Tories and Ukip which aren't really significant numbers.

Actually I am english and like you pro european. I do worry about Ukip though.

I expect the main impact of UKIP re EU will be to force the Tories to push harder for greater autonomy. In a way that would mirror the SNP gaining extra devolution in the event of a "no" vote.

 

[ROCKET80]

If the Scots vote yes and are able to form a socialist government then surely it won't be long before a CIA backed/funded military coup takes place to bring them into line.

They'll have their very own McPinochet in charge.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Put me down as both "No" to the Jocks leaving the UK and "No" to the UK leaving the EU.
Both potential changes to the status quo would be major mistakes for all affected parties imo.

 

[Blue Haze]

[bigimg]http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/chalabi-datalab-scotland-2.png[/bigimg]

Uh yeah, a no vote won't end well. The ones stuck with the consequences of the vote will be overruled by the elderly. Good luck with that.

 

[BlueBearBoots]

The cash inducements offered by Cameron to Scotland to vote no are going to cause uproar if a no vote comes in. I'm beginning to think England loses out either way. Not good for Cameron's career either way

 

[cibaman]

Guys I havent read the thread but I was wondering what will happen to the Union jack and 'Great Britain' if Scotland vote yes.Do they stay the same or would they be changed?

it would have the Soltaire element removed as it is the flag of the union and the dark blue would disappear from the hew design

Does it have to? Who says? Cant we just decide to keep it as it is, if only to irritate our neighbours?

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Guys I havent read the thread but I was wondering what will happen to the Union jack and 'Great Britain' if Scotland vote yes.Do they stay the same or would they be changed?

it would have the Soltaire element removed as it is the flag of the union and the dark blue would disappear from the hew design

Does it have to? Who says? Cant we just decide to keep it as it is, if only to irritate our neighbours?

We can leave it as it is - there's no legal reason forcing us, no need creating a costly exercise for the country. I'd say we may see a resurgence of the English, Welsh and Northern Irish flags which is what it should be.

 

[pirate]

Guys I havent read the thread but I was wondering what will happen to the Union jack and 'Great Britain' if Scotland vote yes.Do they stay the same or would they be changed?

it would have the Soltaire element removed as it is the flag of the union and the dark blue would disappear from the hew design

Does it have to? Who says? Cant we just decide to keep it as it is, if only to irritate our neighbours?

we can and we will keep it. Not to annoy our northern neighbours (although it will), but because its too much of a pain to change it

 

[foxy]

A yes vote would be amusing. It would be great to see how they fund their own NHS (especially in Glasgow) without a huge hike in taxation. The West Lothian question will also be solved :)

 

[the god Gerry Gow]

A yes vote would be amusing. It would be great to see how they fund their own NHS (especially in Glasgow) without a huge hike in taxation. The West Lothian question will also be solved :)

Brilliant interview the other day from Andrew Neill.

This SNP woman kept bringing up the NHS and how it was only safe under SNP hands.

Neill let her rant then pointed out that in real terms the SNP had cut NHS spending by 1% whilst the rest of the UK had increased theirs by 4%.

Cue much reversing of position and stating that the campaign wasn't about that anyway more about not privatising bits of the NHS.

Hang on says Neill are you saying the SNP haven't privatised any services. Yes says the woman.

Funny says Neill cos you have definitely privatised Woman's obesity programmes. You have given them to weight watchers.

Cue bluster, bluster and more bluster

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

A yes vote would be amusing. It would be great to see how they fund their own NHS (especially in Glasgow) without a huge hike in taxation. The West Lothian question will also be solved :)

Brilliant interview the other day from Andrew Neill.

This SNP woman kept bringing up the NHS and how it was only safe under SNP hands.

Neill let her rant then pointed out that in real terms the SNP had cut NHS spending by 1% whilst the rest of the UK had increased theirs by 4%.

Cue much reversing of position and stating that the campaign wasn't about that anyway more about not privatising bits of the NHS.

Hang on says Neill are you saying the SNP haven't privatised any services. Yes says the woman.

Funny says Neill cos you have definitely privatised Woman's obesity programmes. You have given them to weight watchers.

Cue bluster, bluster and more bluster

Scaremongering.

Literally any question can be batted away with this reply, try it. The worrying thing is, I'm hearing lots of interviews with "The Undecided" where they seem to agree that the No campaign are just scaremongering, and yet admit they don't know any of the answers. Unberbloodylievable.

 

[without a dream]

A yes vote would be amusing. It would be great to see how they fund their own NHS (especially in Glasgow) without a huge hike in taxation. The West Lothian question will also be solved :)

Brilliant interview the other day from Andrew Neill.

This SNP woman kept bringing up the NHS and how it was only safe under SNP hands.

Neill let her rant then pointed out that in real terms the SNP had cut NHS spending by 1% whilst the rest of the UK had increased theirs by 4%.

Cue much reversing of position and stating that the campaign wasn't about that anyway more about not privatising bits of the NHS.

Hang on says Neill are you saying the SNP haven't privatised any services. Yes says the woman.

Funny says Neill cos you have definitely privatised Woman's obesity programmes. You have given them to weight watchers.

Cue bluster, bluster and more bluster

Scaremongering.

Literally any question can be batted away with this reply, try it. The worrying thing is, I'm hearing lots of interviews with "The Undecided" where they seem to agree that the No campaign are just scaremongering, and yet admit they don't know any of the answers. Unberbloodylievable.

Apparently 50% of Scots don't believe that they won't get to keep the pound. They'll be in for a shock if it's a yes vote.

 

[west didsblue]

I'm all for retaining the union but not at any price. If it takes huge bribes (effectively a promise of devo max) to bribe the Jocks to vote No, I'd rather they voted Yes.

 

[maccadon]

Devo max isn't on the table.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Brilliant interview the other day from Andrew Neill.

This SNP woman kept bringing up the NHS and how it was only safe under SNP hands.

Neill let her rant then pointed out that in real terms the SNP had cut NHS spending by 1% whilst the rest of the UK had increased theirs by 4%.

Cue much reversing of position and stating that the campaign wasn't about that anyway more about not privatising bits of the NHS.

Hang on says Neill are you saying the SNP haven't privatised any services. Yes says the woman.

Funny says Neill cos you have definitely privatised Woman's obesity programmes. You have given them to weight watchers.

Cue bluster, bluster and more bluster

Scaremongering.

Literally any question can be batted away with this reply, try it. The worrying thing is, I'm hearing lots of interviews with "The Undecided" where they seem to agree that the No campaign are just scaremongering, and yet admit they don't know any of the answers. Unberbloodylievable.

Apparently 50% of Scots don't believe that they won't get to keep the pound. They'll be in for a shock if it's a yes vote.

They can keep the pound name, that's their decision, but they would have to create their own central banking system to support their currency. They will have a short period where the currency is shared, maybe even beyond independence day, but this will be to protect the finances of the remaining union members. On the day of switchover, any investments in Scotland will be subject to unknown pressures - there is absolutely no-one on earth can predict what could happen. I certainly won't be having any of mine in there on the day and if lots of people do the same, Westminster may have to prop up their economy. The worst thing for England, Wales and N Ireland would be to have a neighbouring country on the point of collapse.

Still if Salmond says it will be fine, it'll be fine.

 

[metalblue]

Scaremongering.

Literally any question can be batted away with this reply, try it. The worrying thing is, I'm hearing lots of interviews with "The Undecided" where they seem to agree that the No campaign are just scaremongering, and yet admit they don't know any of the answers. Unberbloodylievable.

Apparently 50% of Scots don't believe that they won't get to keep the pound. They'll be in for a shock if it's a yes vote.

They can keep the pound name, that's their decision, but they would have to create their own central banking system to support their currency. They will have a short period where the currency is shared, maybe even beyond independence day, but this will be to protect the finances of the remaining union members. On the day of switchover, any investments in Scotland will be subject to unknown pressures - there is absolutely no-one on earth can predict what could happen. I certainly won't be having any of mine in there on the day and if lots of people do the same, Westminster may have to prop up their economy. The worst thing for England, Wales and N Ireland would be to have a neighbouring country on the point of collapse.

Still if Salmond says it will be fine, it'll be fine.

They won't be able to use sterling one second after independence if they don't concede economic control to Westminster and even then Westminster is under no obligation to play ball. Nonetheless let's go along with the yes campaigns belief we will have no choice but to have a currency union which means budgets being decided by Westminster (law, health, education, defence, welfare etc), tax rates decided by Westminster, basically all the important stuff...so not really independence.

Salmond is just a twat who is frighteningly flippant about many key issues and with so many assumptions a yes vote is literally a vote to jump off a cliff and hope every single one of those assumptions is accurate, a "it'll be alright on the night"...which evidence would say they aren't. That is no way to run a business let alone a country. If this is what Scotland wants then I'd feel much more bullish about the future of an independent Scotland if this was all sorted out properly...independence for Scotland has to be progressive, evolving over time and at a pace where, by the time it comes around, they are independent in everything but name.

All that said given the likely voter turnout we won't be able to say the decision is not the will of the people of Scotland.

 

[hackneyslim]

A yes vote would be amusing. It would be great to see how they fund their own NHS (especially in Glasgow) without a huge hike in taxation. The West Lothian question will also be solved :)

Brilliant interview the other day from Andrew Neill.

This SNP woman kept bringing up the NHS and how it was only safe under SNP hands.

Neill let her rant then pointed out that in real terms the SNP had cut NHS spending by 1% whilst the rest of the UK had increased theirs by 4%.

Cue much reversing of position and stating that the campaign wasn't about that anyway more about not privatising bits of the NHS.

Hang on says Neill are you saying the SNP haven't privatised any services. Yes says the woman.

Funny says Neill cos you have definitely privatised Woman's obesity programmes. You have given them to weight watchers.

Cue bluster, bluster and more bluster

Andrew Neill is a Murdoch mouthpiece and as such is fundamentally a propaganda tool. If listening to liars, blowhards and doomsayers is an acceptable conduit to political solutions, he should be Speaker of the House.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

They can keep the pound name, that's their decision, but they would have to create their own central banking system to support their currency. They will have a short period where the currency is shared, maybe even beyond independence day, but this will be to protect the finances of the remaining union members. On the day of switchover, any investments in Scotland will be subject to unknown pressures - there is absolutely no-one on earth can predict what could happen. I certainly won't be having any of mine in there on the day and if lots of people do the same, Westminster may have to prop up their economy. The worst thing for England, Wales and N Ireland would be to have a neighbouring country on the point of collapse.

Still if Salmond says it will be fine, it'll be fine.

They won't be able to use sterling one second after independence if they don't concede economic control to Westminster and even then Westminster is under no obligation to play ball. Nonetheless let's go along with the yes campaigns belief we will have no choice but to have a currency union which means budgets being decided by Westminster (law, health, education, defence, welfare etc), tax rates decided by Westminster, basically all the important stuff...so not really independence.

Salmond is just a twat who is frighteningly flippant about many key issues and with so many assumptions a yes vote is literally a vote to jump off a cliff and hope every single one of those assumptions is accurate, a "it'll be alright on the night"...which evidence would say they aren't. That is no way to run a business let alone a country. If this is what Scotland wants then I'd feel much more bullish about the future of an independent Scotland if this was all sorted out properly...independence for Scotland has to be progressive, evolving over time and at a pace where, by the time it comes around, they are independent in everything but name.

All that said given the likely voter turnout we won't be able to say the decision is not the will of the people of Scotland.

Whichever way it goes, it will be the will of a smidgeon over half the people which is a recipe for unrest should any promises from either side not bear fruit. At least the No campaign are leaving room for backing out.

 

[CityFan94]

If Scotland vote YES, I think they will keep the pound.

It would make absolutely no sense not to have a currency union, England's biggest trade is with Scotland and vice versa.

This is from the BBC; "The most recent Scottish government figures, not including oil and gas, show Scotland sold £50.5bn in goods and services to the rest of the UK in 2013. The rest of the UK sold £62.7bn in goods and services to Scotland."