Stadium Expansion

[oldius]

A wonderful post from tolmie. This would be a great opportunity to give football back to the people and would be among the greatest pieces of PR that the club could wish for.

What a fortress the stadium could become with a 100k cauldron of noise.

 

[Gordyola]

IMHO Tolmie is spot on I suggested much the same in a FFP post a few years ago as there is no doubt that FFP is pushing tickets prices higher, no FFP for the fans thanks Platini. But onec the capacity is increased the footfall can be increased by reducing the cost of the tickets a captive audience will also spend on other things and with the collar site dveloped this will be vital

 

[Chippy_boy]

All aside though its a very inspirational post just lacks all basic logic

I really don't think you have thought that through. It's a quite brilliant idea and would make financial sense too.

It's been proven time and time and time again by successive governments around the world that if you want to increase tax revenues, you CUT taxes. This works because it stimulates demand and growth and you get more money by taking a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. This is just the same.

The club could make WAY more money if we had say 80,000+ coming every fortnight. No matter what price the tickets.

Just think of the knock on effects. How many of them would want cheap season tickets? How many of them would buy programs and shirts and other memorabilia. How many would spend money at local eateries and pubs etc. The possibilities for revenue generation are enormous.

How many families with 3 toddlers would start taking them to City instead of anywhere else.

 

[fbloke]

The greatest gift Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon can now do for this club is build the biggest stadium in the country, 100,000.

Make it a tenner for adults, a fiver for kids, we seriously don't need the money.

It should be about planting seeds for generations to come, to ingrain yourself in the psyche of English and world football.

Make it a quid for cup games, give Manchester it's true football club back.

Visiting fans would easily take up the best part of 5,000 each game if we extended the same goodwill towards them.

The multi-millions come from corporate and commercial take-up, money through the gate is chicken feed in the grander scheme of things.

If you set aside boxes, lounges and exec seats you print money, especially if they believe it is with the right club to be associated with.

Players from around the world want to play in front of the biggest crowds, want that sense of occasion.

100,000 people, week in, week out, getting to see the best product in the best of surroundings, at the cheapest of costs.

Our owners aren't stupid, all those fans would be spending millions on the related leisure facilities and hotels, etc.

At some stage it is has to be about winning hearts and minds, creating a legacy further than a few hundred jobs and a wonderful training ground.

What better PR than to be known throughout the world as the club that gave football back to the people.

Its always been my understanding that many elements of what you say are in the minds of ADUG.

They knew about FFPR when they were negotiating to buy the club but I firmly believe that their vision of FFPR includes local people, local families and kids especially being brought into the club at as cheap a price as possible.

Don't think people really appreciate how rich are owners are.

They can make tickets free if they wished. Ticketing revenue is peanuts, always has been.

There is a reason why German football has the best attendances, and they don't have anywhere near the resources we have.

We are in the grip of a recession which will take at least another generation to come out the other side.

FFPR is putting a brake on sky-high transfer fees, so best to use our financial might towards growing the supporter base and ensuring we keep the ones we have.

Financially dope the ticketing costs, charge top dollar for corporate, everything else will look after itself.

My dad now regularly sits nursing a pint in his local, watching City on the big screen.

He earns a couple hundred a week and is now classed as an O.A.P.

Unless I fork-out, his time with City seems to be coming to a pretty sad, lingering conclusion, after 50 years.

I know that many people struggle with what can be done in terms of PR/Sponsorship but I can certainly imagine a situation where a sponsor comes along and makes it a condition of their deal that the club cap ticket prices for x number of fans.

Lets say, purely by way of example that Etihad offered a further £15m p.a. package to City on the understanding that every ticket non-corporate seat was sold at no more than
£25 and OAP's and Juniors were allowed in for a fiver?

Boy would that put the cat amongst the pigeons in so many ways.

Arsenal's model would look somewhat iffy and such a deal would sail through any FFPR tests because who would dare call it into question.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Tolmie at a £10 a game which the cheapest season tickets are not far off people still moan. Maybe they should pay us to come and buy my beers to. I think I might miss a mortgage payment maybe they could help me with that
Its a business not a charity

All aside though its a very inspirational post just lacks all basic logic

My dad can't afford a season ticket, so whilst you can point to the cheapest ones being around a tenner, again, there's a reason why they only put 250 of them up for sale.

....Because they are so popular.

My dad, my brother, friends..loads of blues who now have to decide on a match-by-match basis, if that,

I have stated Sheikh Mansour has every right to make as much money as he can, but if we go by your premise that we are a business and not a charity, then we have been a dreadful business model in terms of losses, the reason why, to get us to a certain level of competition.

What's the difference in now heavily writing-off ticketing costs to attract new fans and larger crowds, as opposed to offering Tevez £200k a week to join us?

They want millions of people visiting the Etihad Campus in the coming years, the football club has to be the anchor of it all.

Can you not see McDonalds, Starbucks, Ferrari, shopping malls, JD Sports, Odeon, Hilton Hotels, etc, all paying City tens of millions to be in situ each year?

I would love to take my wife, my kids, my in-laws when and whenever, safe in the knowledge I can get a ticket and it won't cost me upwards of £200 before I spend another penny.

The irony, my family are having such a good time enjoying themselves, I will spend the best part of £200 buying them things around the stadium.

If it was down to me, we would already be building an indoor concert arena on the surrounding land, concerts three times a week and buy the MEN Arena site off the council.

Again, 365 days a year.

Speculate to accumulate, that's the saying.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The thing that normally knocks such grand plans on the head is the short termism of most UK businesses, and their lack of cash. They need to see a compelling return on any new investment in a very short timescale, or the project gets knocked on the head.

We are in the uniquely enviable position of having no such limitations. Our owners are clearly not exactly strapped for cash! And demonstrably, they are investing for the long term.

So if it costs £200m to expand the stadium, the possibility that we won't get a return on it for 10 years, really doesn't matter. Eventually, we will generate far more money than we will do if we do nothing. And we can easily stand the negative cash flow in the mean time.

From an FFPR point of view, none of the spend would count anyway, so it would only have a beneficial effect on FFPR, especially if we reduced the prices progressively so that the gate receipts didn't drop instantly before other revenue streams were kicking in.

 

[bugsyblue]

All aside though its a very inspirational post just lacks all basic logic

I really don't think you have thought that through. It's a quite brilliant idea and would make financial sense too.

It's been proven time and time and time again by successive governments around the world that if you want to increase tax revenues, you CUT taxes. This works because it stimulates demand and growth and you get more money by taking a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. This is just the same.

The club could

make WAY more money if we had say 80,000+ coming every fortnight. No matter what price the tickets.

Just think of the knock on effects. How many of them would want cheap season tickets? How many of them would buy programs and shirts and other memorabilia. How many would spend money at local eateries and pubs etc. The possibilities for revenue generation are enormous.

How many families with 3 toddlers would start taking them to City instead of anywhere else.

Chippy mate I'm not sure you have thought it through:

80,000 x £10 = 800,000
45,000 x £35 = 1,575,000

I can't see memrabilia, programmes, drinks etc filling the defecit. Also you have to factor in the construction work costs in the first place! My guess would be an expanision would be at least £80m?

However maybe there's a balance to be struck:

40,000 x £35 = £1.4m
10,000 x £25 = 250,000
10,000 x £20 = 200,000
20,000 x £10 = 200,000
Total: 2,050,000

That is with a large selection of cheap seats. I'm sur ethe club has done the maths and there are ways to make it work obviously.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Somebody mentioned toddlers and 3 yr olds.

I wonder if that a city supporters creched would ever be considered. My wife sometimes works weekends and my mother in law looks after the kiddies when it is match time. Lets say I wanted to take them with me but put them in a creche at the ground. A silly idea probably but just a thought? I am reading Tolms post over and over and it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheaper ticketing would be a brilliant idea if they decided that was a viable route. Posted this on another thread about Arsenal, but their tickets are scandalous (as we already know):

FAMILY ENCLOSURE LOWER TIER "CAT A" GAME

Adult: £62
Junior Gunner: £23.50


FAMILY ENCLOSURE UPPER TIER "CAT A" GAME

Adult: £81.50
Junior Gunner: £31.50

All those prices are "Members" ticket prices!

Any gooner who is not a member and fancies watching them play us will have to pay a whopping £126 for a seat in the Upper tier at the Emirates.

 

[Chippy_boy]

All aside though its a very inspirational post just lacks all basic logic

I really don't think you have thought that through. It's a quite brilliant idea and would make financial sense too.

It's been proven time and time and time again by successive governments around the world that if you want to increase tax revenues, you CUT taxes. This works because it stimulates demand and growth and you get more money by taking a smaller slice of a much bigger pie. This is just the same.

The club could

make WAY more money if we had say 80,000+ coming every fortnight. No matter what price the tickets.

Just think of the knock on effects. How many of them would want cheap season tickets? How many of them would buy programs and shirts and other memorabilia. How many would spend money at local eateries and pubs etc. The possibilities for revenue generation are enormous.

How many families with 3 toddlers would start taking them to City instead of anywhere else.

Chippy mate I'm not sure you have thought it through:

80,000 x £10 = 800,000
45,000 x £35 = 1,575,000

I can't see memrabilia, programmes, drinks etc filling the defecit. Also you have to factor in the construction work costs in the first place! My guess would be an expanision would be at least £80m?

Honestly mate, you really have to take a much bigger view than the game receipts and you don't seem to have done that.

How much do we get in sponsorship deals? How much would that be increased if we had 100,000 coming to some games? The amounts you talk about above are peanuts.

Regards the construction costs, amortised over 10 years, peanuts again. It's all about taking a long term view.

Genuinely I believe Tolmie is on to something here. It could make sense financially as well as every which way.

And what price do you put on Abu Dhabi's increased profile and reputation on the world stage? The Sheikh has already shown an amazing willingness to invest to drive those goals. Do you really think that losing £700k a week in ticket sales should put him off? Not that he would lose that much with the increased revenue streams elsewhere as I have alluded to.