Stadium Expansion

[jonmcity]

OK so my suggestion for 20,000 lower priced tickets for local fans got shot down in flames!
The problem I was trying to address is that without some incentive to bring in extra fans we aren't going to fill a 60k stadium let alone a 75k one anytime soon other than for the odd game.

I have supported City for 45 years and we have always prided ourselves on the loyalty / size of support we had particularly during the times we spent in the lower divisions. All that is undoubtedly true but it has also allowed a myth to develop about the size of our support.

We need to deal with reality, after a sensational climax to last season and with the best football being played that I can remember for a long time we are only just about selling out most games and that includes CL league against huge teams.

I am also suspicious of the "Sold Out" games because to be honest there are always dozens of empty seats all over the ground at most of theses games. I know we pass that off as season ticket holders not turning up but that does not seem to be a problem at Arsenal, United, Liverpool etc. Do we really have so many more ST holders than these clubs who can't be bothered to turn up?

We have 2 STs and if ever we are unable to attend we let someone else use them - wouldn't most people do that? So why the empty seats?

Ticket prices are only going to keep going up as the club tries to comply with FFP (one of the many unintended consequences of FFP) so I honestly cannot see the need for a larger stadium for some time unless something is being done to get bums on seats. If people think the atmosphere is often poor now can you imagine what it would be like with thousands of empty seats at every game?

Perhaps all this will ultimately result in a reality-check on players wages, transfer fees etc. and the "market" will adjust itself so that ticket prices eventually come down. At the moment all the huge amounts of money pouring into the game from Sky etc are really going directly into the pockets of the players & agents and fans are having to pay increased prices to keep clubs solvent (and City are by no means the worst off in this regard).

We need to have a clear idea about how we are going to fill a larger stadium before we go down that route and that was where my original suggestion was coming from. As they say,
hope is not a strategy so what are other fans ideas on how we fill 60,000 or 75,000 seats?

i Agree we need to follow the German route cheap tickets in large stadiums. Once you have got a fan, you are able to market to them increase revenue and buy better players. Sponsors & TV want large crowds that generate good atmosphere's in the stadium. Its all about expanding your appeal as the majority of revenue comes from sponsors these days.

 

[cibaman]

Cibaman, I don't see what the problem is with having a 60k stadium or whatever. What is wrong with a crowd, for example, of 52k in a 60 k capacity if it means 4000 more get in every game ? Surely we all remember the Maine Rd 'glory days' when we only used to fill the stadium twice a season for the derby and the occasional big game ! We used to get 30-35 k in a 50 odd thousand capacity stadium but there wasn't the hang up that some people on here seem to have that we MUST sell every seat every week. Look at Italy, the so called big clubs regularly play to half empty stadiums. Who cares !

The club are trying to build up the image of the club abroad. That might not appeal to many of our hard core traditional fans, but in future a huge chunk of our income will come from overseas. Until recently we were not that well known abroad, certainly not compared to United, Liverpool or Chelsea.

Creating an image of City as a "hot ticket" is an important part of the strategy. Full houses emphasise that, empty seats don't. If you're selling corn flakes then failing meet demand is criminal. But if you're buiding a fashionable brand then having some excess demand isn't a bad thing, at least in the short term.

I know in some countries gates are much more variable, supporters traditionally pick and chose their matches. But that it isn't the norm in England.

Have you seen and heard the amount of advertising that United are doing just now? I've heard numerous radio ads this week for their game against West Ham. The cost of those ads must be far greater than the income that they will bring in. But United know that the sight of empty seats at OT would be hugely detrimental to their image abroad. They cant afford to let that happen.

It may be shallow, but we'll sell more shirts in Japan if they see an image of a packed Etihad with 47,000 in it than a 60,000 seater stadium with 52,000 in it.

 

[southstander93]

i Agree we need to follow the German route cheap tickets in large stadiums. Once you have got a fan, you are able to market to them increase revenue and buy better players. Sponsors & TV want large crowds that generate good atmosphere's in the stadium. Its all about expanding your appeal as the majority of revenue comes from sponsors these days.

Couldn't agree more mate. In my opinion, the working class do need to be brought back to football, as they have been gradually priced out in the higher divisions over the last 10 years. Atmosphere has suffered all over the country from it, something that has been the subject of countless threads on Bluemoon over the recent months.

People that pay £40 for a ticket do tend to want to sit in comfort watching the best football in the country, and we are lucky enough to have that, but there are thousands of city fans that used to walk up to Maine Road on match day, buy a ticket on the gate, walk in to the kippax, get pissed, and make some atmosphere. Personally when I go to city I want the full match day experience, ie, drinks in the pub/ground before hand, maybe a chippy, a decent atmosphere throughout the 90 minutes, and 3 points. Just because we want to expand to suit the needs of the corporates and new fans, doesn't mean we shouldn't expand for the needs of the old ones as well.

Sure, the days of buying a ticket on the gate are long gone, but if the ground was expanded, away fans shifted, we could have a singing section where those that want to stand would go, for cheap prices. This would bring in a better atmosphere, great PR, would give the old fans that have been priced out somewhere to go, and would bring in kids (the future of our support).

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening, which worries me because I've been going to matches week in week out for 14 years now, but the prices are just about getting unmanageable for me and my dad, so I may lose out on my season ticket soon. After watching years of sh*t, I think i deserve to watch these good times, as do thousands of other fans that have no doubt been watching longer than me! I just cant see that I will be going much longer unless the prices are lowered, or at least capped at what they are now. I'm incredibly happy that the club is expanding worldwide, and I encourage them to bring in more fans and revenue how they see fit, I just hope that they do it in a way where fans like me, that have been there the whole time don't suffer from it.

 

[jonmcity]

Cibaman, I don't see what the problem is with having a 60k stadium or whatever. What is wrong with a crowd, for example, of 52k in a 60 k capacity if it means 4000 more get in every game ? Surely we all remember the Maine Rd 'glory days' when we only used to fill the stadium twice a season for the derby and the occasional big game ! We used to get 30-35 k in a 50 odd thousand capacity stadium but there wasn't the hang up that some people on here seem to have that we MUST sell every seat every week. Look at Italy, the so called big clubs regularly play to half empty stadiums. Who cares !

The club are trying to build up the image of the club abroad. That might not appeal to many of our hard core traditional fans, but in future a huge chunk of our income will come from overseas. Until recently we were not that well known abroad, certainly not compared to United, Liverpool or Chelsea.

Creating an image of City as a "hot ticket" is an important part of the strategy. Full houses emphasise that, empty seats don't. If you're selling corn flakes then failing meet demand is criminal. But if you're buiding a fashionable brand then having some excess demand isn't a bad thing, at least in the short term.

I know in some countries gates are much more variable, supporters traditionally pick and chose their matches. But that it isn't the norm in England.

Have you seen and heard the amount of advertising that United are doing just now? I've heard numerous radio ads this week for their game against West Ham. The cost of those ads must be far greater than the income that they will bring in. But United know that the sight of empty seats at OT would be hugely detrimental to their image abroad. They cant afford to let that happen.

It may be shallow, but we'll sell more shirts in Japan if they see an image of a packed Etihad with 47,000 in it than a 60,000 seater stadium with 52,000 in it.

I much prefer 60k or 70k and a full stadium. Pricing and accessibility is the answer. look at Real Madrid & Barcelona, you can buy tickets all over the city on the day of the game.

 

[greenfingers]

Cibaman, I don't see what the problem is with having a 60k stadium or whatever. What is wrong with a crowd, for example, of 52k in a 60 k capacity if it means 4000 more get in every game ? Surely we all remember the Maine Rd 'glory days' when we only used to fill the stadium twice a season for the derby and the occasional big game ! We used to get 30-35 k in a 50 odd thousand capacity stadium but there wasn't the hang up that some people on here seem to have that we MUST sell every seat every week. Look at Italy, the so called big clubs regularly play to half empty stadiums. Who cares !

The club are trying to build up the image of the club abroad. That might not appeal to many of our hard core traditional fans, but in future a huge chunk of our income will come from overseas. Until recently we were not that well known abroad, certainly not compared to United, Liverpool or Chelsea.

Creating an image of City as a "hot ticket" is an important part of the strategy. Full houses emphasise that, empty seats don't. If you're selling corn flakes then failing meet demand is criminal. But if you're buiding a fashionable brand then having some excess demand isn't a bad thing, at least in the short term.

I know in some countries gates are much more variable, supporters traditionally pick and chose their matches. But that it isn't the norm in England.

Have you seen and heard the amount of advertising that United are doing just now? I've heard numerous radio ads this week for their game against West Ham. The cost of those ads must be far greater than the income that they will bring in. But United know that the sight of empty seats at OT would be hugely detrimental to their image abroad. They cant afford to let that happen.

It may be shallow, but we'll sell more shirts in Japan if they see an image of a packed Etihad with 47,000 in it than a 60,000 seater stadium with 52,000 in it.

I much prefer 60k or 70k and a full stadium. Pricing and accessibility is the answer. look at Real Madrid & Barcelona, you can buy tickets all over the city on the day of the game.

I agree that pricing and accessibility is the answer BUT Real Madrid are more expensive than City.

As an example I paid 55 Euros plus fee which came to £47 ish to see Madrid play Celta Vigo about a month ago.

The ticket was for the equivalent of CBL4 if you see what I mean - the prices for any Madrid game are 55 Euros up to 150 Euros for their main stand(CBL).

As for accessibility - yes you can buy via Ticketmaster and print your own tickets on the day of the game BUT most seats are occupied by Season Ticket holders who release their tickets if they don't fancy the game at the start of the week preceding that game.

For example Madrid play alcoyana next Tuesday 27th November and if you go on the Madrid site NOW the STs tickets have not been released for sale yet!

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

OK so my suggestion for 20,000 lower priced tickets for local fans got shot down in flames!
The problem I was trying to address is that without some incentive to bring in extra fans we aren't going to fill a 60k stadium let alone a 75k one anytime soon other than for the odd game.

I have supported City for 45 years and we have always prided ourselves on the loyalty / size of support we had particularly during the times we spent in the lower divisions. All that is undoubtedly true but it has also allowed a myth to develop about the size of our support.

We need to deal with reality, after a sensational climax to last season and with the best football being played that I can remember for a long time we are only just about selling out most games and that includes CL league against huge teams.

I am also suspicious of the "Sold Out" games because to be honest there are always dozens of empty seats all over the ground at most of theses games. I know we pass that off as season ticket holders not turning up but that does not seem to be a problem at Arsenal, United, Liverpool etc. Do we really have so many more ST holders than these clubs who can't be bothered to turn up?

We have 2 STs and if ever we are unable to attend we let someone else use them - wouldn't most people do that? So why the empty seats?

Ticket prices are only going to keep going up as the club tries to comply with FFP (one of the many unintended consequences of FFP) so I honestly cannot see the need for a larger stadium for some time unless something is being done to get bums on seats. If people think the atmosphere is often poor now can you imagine what it would be like with thousands of empty seats at every game?

Perhaps all this will ultimately result in a reality-check on players wages, transfer fees etc. and the "market" will adjust itself so that ticket prices eventually come down. At the moment all the huge amounts of money pouring into the game from Sky etc are really going directly into the pockets of the players & agents and fans are having to pay increased prices to keep clubs solvent (and City are by no means the worst off in this regard).

We need to have a clear idea about how we are going to fill a larger stadium before we go down that route and that was where my original suggestion was coming from. As they say,
hope is not a strategy so what are other fans ideas on how we fill 60,000 or 75,000 seats?

Cavendish Blue: I suspect you are of similar vintage to me and you are spot-on. We have always had brilliant support but the longer we are away from Maine Road the more the myth grows about the size of crowds. Before all seating attendances used to fluctuate wildly and we only sold out a few times a season (as did United despite what younger rags claim!) My dad (a rag) and his brother (a blue) both went to the famous Stoke match in 1934. There were 84,000 there apparently with many thousands of neutral day-trippers and Stoke fans!
There is nothing wrong with the Germam model which has a very wide price structure and there is no reason why we should not offer discount tickets in, for example, one of the new top tiers if we expand to 60,000 capacity. We can fill 60,000 seats, but in this economic climate, we will need to be imaginative to do it. Whatever happens in the future we all know that City have always had a fantastic hard core support and always will have. We have consistently been among the best supported clubs in England (mostly top five) for the last 100 years. We should be proud of what we have achieved so far.

 

[StanGibsonspitchfork]

OK so my suggestion for 20,000 lower priced tickets for local fans got shot down in flames!
The problem I was trying to address is that without some incentive to bring in extra fans we aren't going to fill a 60k stadium let alone a 75k one anytime soon other than for the odd game.

I have supported City for 45 years and we have always prided ourselves on the loyalty / size of support we had particularly during the times we spent in the lower divisions. All that is undoubtedly true but it has also allowed a myth to develop about the size of our support.

We need to deal with reality, after a sensational climax to last season and with the best football being played that I can remember for a long time we are only just about selling out most games and that includes CL league against huge teams.

I am also suspicious of the "Sold Out" games because to be honest there are always dozens of empty seats all over the ground at most of theses games. I know we pass that off as season ticket holders not turning up but that does not seem to be a problem at Arsenal, United, Liverpool etc. Do we really have so many more ST holders than these clubs who can't be bothered to turn up?

We have 2 STs and if ever we are unable to attend we let someone else use them - wouldn't most people do that? So why the empty seats?

Ticket prices are only going to keep going up as the club tries to comply with FFP (one of the many unintended consequences of FFP) so I honestly cannot see the need for a larger stadium for some time unless something is being done to get bums on seats. If people think the atmosphere is often poor now can you imagine what it would be like with thousands of empty seats at every game?

Perhaps all this will ultimately result in a reality-check on players wages, transfer fees etc. and the "market" will adjust itself so that ticket prices eventually come down. At the moment all the huge amounts of money pouring into the game from Sky etc are really going directly into the pockets of the players & agents and fans are having to pay increased prices to keep clubs solvent (and City are by no means the worst off in this regard).

We need to have a clear idea about how we are going to fill a larger stadium before we go down that route and that was where my original suggestion was coming from. As they say,
hope is not a strategy so what are other fans ideas on how we fill 60,000 or 75,000 seats?

Cavendish Blue: I suspect you are of similar vintage to me and you are spot-on. We have always had brilliant support but the longer we are away from Maine Road the more the myth grows about the size of crowds. Before all seating attendances used to fluctuate wildly and we only sold out a few times a season (as did United despite what younger rags claim!) My dad (a rag) and his brother (a blue) both went to the famous Stoke match in 1934. There were 84,000 there apparently with many thousands of neutral day-trippers and Stoke fans!
There is nothing wrong with the Germam model which has a very wide price structure and there is no reason why we should not offer discount tickets in, for example, one of the new top tiers if we expand to 60,000 capacity. We can fill 60,000 seats, but in this economic climate, we will need to be imaginative to do it. Whatever happens in the future we all know that City have always had a fantastic hard core support and always will have. We have consistently been among the best supported clubs in England (mostly top five) for the last 100 years. We should be proud of what we have achieved so far.

CITY CITY CITY!

 

[Sheikh Rattle n Roll]

It's not that long ago when we were at Maine Road with crowds of 16k, 17k and 18k in a 52,000 capacity stadium, so don't worry about the empty seats, we never did then!........I know things have changed big time since and the Club know that there is a large fan base in Manchester alone, that can easily fill a 60k stadium.

With regard to cup matches and lower attendances, who remembers the days when our cup attendances in the FA cup were larger than league (as like other clubs). I think the younger fans, and in a lot of instances, older fans today, seem to think everything revolves around The Champions League, which clearly isn't the case given the 'struggle' to sell tickets for home games.

Bring on a 60k stadium!

 

[OB1]

It's not that long ago when we were at Maine Road with crowds of 16k, 17k and 18k in a 52,000 capacity stadium, so don't worry about the empty seats, we never did then!........I know things have changed big time since and the Club know that there is a large fan base in Manchester alone, that can easily fill a 60k stadium.

With regard to cup matches and lower attendances, who remembers the days when our cup attendances in the FA cup were larger than league (as like other clubs). I think the younger fans, and in a lot of instances, older fans today, seem to think everything revolves around The Champions League, which clearly isn't the case given the 'struggle' to sell tickets for home games.

Bring on a 60k stadium!

When exactly did we get crowds under 20k in Maine Road for league games?

 

[Anonymous]

safe standing will be a great move for the club.

im hoping for them to have half price tickets in these standing sections for the local fans.

then if they want to expand the upper tiers that would be for the daytrippers.