Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

[Palerider]

Are these stats for % of residents who are foreign nationals? Because that’s an imperfect measure of rate of immigration. In Germany it can be difficult to acquire nationality, even if you’re born there, and they don’t allow dual nationality. There are people who migrated to Germany in the 70s or even earlier still living there who can show up as “foreign” on the statistics, which is misleading if we use those stats to measure how much immigration is actually happening right now.

I just googled 'what percentage of Belgium etc are immigrants'. Can you think of a fairer question to establish whether a country is pro or anti immigration?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You may be confusing immigration with freedom of movement, we had both and control off immigration.We also had controls on freedom of movement which wisely we didn’t enforce.
We needed both and now out of the EU we need immigration even this government realise that.
You also seem to confuse immigration and FOM with asylum seekers and refugees which is also a very different thing and not at all connected. Easy mistake as the government insist on calling refugees illegal immigrants.

I'm not confusing anything, FOM resulted in migration, its one and the same, migration is a catch all "term" is it not?

I just noted the comparison in some areas and descripancy in others ie employment ability. And the mess with which both have been handled by our government.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I respect you as a poster, why do you think it is not the same?

I will PM you. Cheers

 

[blueparrot]

I'm not confusing anything, FOM resulted in migration, its one and the same, migration is a catch all "term" is it not?

I just noted the comparison in some areas and descripancy in others ie employment ability. And the mess with which both have been handled by our government.

No they aren’t the same but this isn’t about FOM and immigration its about asylum and refugees very very different. Nobody should be allowing anyone especially the government to be getting away with this illegal immigration shit.

 

[bluenova]

I wasn't appointing blame on the uncontrolled immigration , just pointing out that it happened during our tenure in the EU.

I saw on the news yesterday that the majority of those currently coming over on boats are in fact from Albania.

Albanian migrants: Why are they coming to the UK and how many have arrived?

Why are Albanian migrants coming to the UK and how many have arrived?

www.bbc.com

It's reasonable to assume that the majority of these people are not refugees is it not? So it's reasonable to assume that once rejected they will continue to get in boats like they do now.

It's very hard to see how to stop this happening is the point I was making.

I think you've misread that - Albanians are the largest group, but there are three times as many people from the other countries listed.

The focus on Albanians from the government is a cynical one, as it embeds the 'economic migrant' narrative in people's heads, but if you look at the other countries on the list: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eritrea etc., you see places that you would expect refugees to come from.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

 

[KPXBLN]

I just googled 'what percentage of Belgium etc are immigrants'. Can you think of a fairer question to establish whether a country is pro or anti immigration?

my point is that those figures don't give much of a picture of what's happening now or in the last 5 or 10 years. Since with reference to this legislation we're talking about asylum seekers specifically, a more useful measure would be the number accepted by each country per year in the last 5-10 years - better still, the number as compared to the size of the country's population.

 

[BrianW]

A lot of people are scared by the concept of 'freedom of movement' but these same folk hypocritically enjoy the freedom to pop into Yorkshire, Derbyshire or even Wales whenever they feel like it. The FOM in the EU is actually less free than that*, but it's really only the same as having bigger borders. It is not the same as having 'open borders'.

The Schengen countries exchange all sorts of data to which we are no longer privy due to Brexit, so we actually have less information about people who come here, legally or otherwise, than we did!

The most effective tool for controlling illegal migration would be to have ID cards and also to completely ban the cash-in-hand economy. But the odd thing is, the people most exercised by the topic are also the ones most opposed to these practical measures.


*You can skive on the dole in the UK county of your choice, but the likes of Germany limit non-native EU nationals to three months. We could never be bother to enforce this, as it was easier to blame the EU.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I think you've misread that - Albanians are the largest group, but there are three times as many people from the other countries listed.

The focus on Albanians from the government is a cynical one, as it embeds the 'economic migrant' narrative in people's heads, but if you look at the other countries on the list: Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eritrea etc., you see places that you would expect refugees to come from.

Fair point.

 

[mexico1970]

The most effective tool for controlling illegal migration would be to have ID cards and also to completely ban the cash-in-hand economy. But the odd thing is, the people most exercised by the topic are also the ones most opposed to these practical measures.

I would welcome ID cards but the fight against them probably wouldn't be from my demographic mate, after seeing some old bloke struggle with bank cards yesterday cash should always be an option though.