Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

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He should rise above it then and offer some constructive criticism.
He has merely fanned the flames of a already overheated situation.
I personally don't agree with the proposals,but we need rational debate and I'm sure there are many in the tory party who would hope for some common sense as well,but it won't happen when the extreme views are the only ones getting aired.

He has tweeted the same sort of stuff millions have tweeted after the Tory rhetoric on this, he’s not the only high profile celeb to call this out either.

It’s the media deciding to use him as ‘fanning the flames’ to stoke a divide on the issue
 
What if you think both are wrong? The government is obviously not right and their populist plans need amending but clearly the refugee and asylum issue does need fixing and something does need to be done? Or just do nothing? Linekers comments are just as infantile and populist for his followers.

Is the UNHCR part of his populist followers?
 
Maybe, just maybe, those who have been arguing on behalf of her will now take the time to educate themselves and come to an informed understanding.

This is what I do when I see that people are determined in their thoughts.
 
I'm well aware that the there was a build up to the more extreme actions of the Nazis (let's call them what they were,don't insult all Germans).
I'll ask you the question I asked a few others earlier without response,as you've drawn a parallel about the build up to the atrocities do you believe we are on a similar path.
If the answer is yes then I feel you have a poor grasp of this countries history and likely future.
If it's no then why draw the comparison in the first place.
Nothing to worry about then, I'm glad you've put my mind to rest.
Phew, for a few years there I thought democracy, dissent and protest might be under threat, now I know better.
Ps, we dont have to commit genocide to find ourselves in an intellectually and democratically impoverished state.
 
As far as I can tell, Lineker was cautioning us against the slippery slope that was described in Philip Zimbardo’s seminal book The Lucifer Effect and the chilling documentary Five Steps to Tyranny:



The well-known brown eyed, blue eyed people class experiment shown at the beginning is particularly salient.

Of course, it is not inevitable that such trajectories will always be followed. For example, smoking cannabis does not automatically entail that whoever does so is fated to become a heroin addict.

Such cautionary arguments also show up in debates about abortion and euthanasia. But again, it is not a foregone conclusion that women will eventually seek to terminate a pregnancy for the most trivial of reasons, or that doctor-assisted suicide will come to be sanctioned for eminently treatable health issues. In fact, the evidence tends to suggest quite the opposite.

Nevertheless, the examples cited in the documentary (Rwanda, Palestine, the former Yugoslavia) show that this can happen, that descents to the bottom of the slope that end in genocide have repeatedly occurred. This is because we are are a tribalistic species who divide the world into ‘us’ and ‘them’, and the empathy that we feel towards others only tends to be extended to those who we identify with in some way. Populists are especially good at exploiting these tendencies.

Plus, we are more conformist and obedient to authority, and more willing to harm others than many of us realise, as demonstrated by the famous Milgram study and the Stanford Prison experiment (which are both depicted and discussed) in the documentary.

And so while it could be argued that what Lineker said might not be historically accurate, his tweet is certainly supported by the aforementioned research in social psychology and by the horrendous real world examples that are highlighted in the video.
 
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One study not mentioned in the video I linked to above is also illustrative of the point that it (and Gary Lineker) was making.

Former students of Ron Jones, a teacher at Cubberley high school in Northern California still describe his experiment, known as The Wave, as a milestone in their lives.

During project week in April 1967, Jones began teaching his 10th-grade class the power of discipline, drilling them to sit properly and breathe correctly. He made them address him as Mr Jones, stand by their desks when answering questions, and chant slogans.

To his surprise, his 15-year-old students liked the strict regime and became more motivated to learn. During about a week of daily lessons, he created a movement. It had a salute (a raised, cupped hand), a slogan - "strength through discipline, community and action" - and a secret police force. Students made banners, had membership cards, made others join the movement, beat up those who wouldn't conform and voluntarily informed on each other. Jones even had student bodyguards accompanying him as he walked through the school.

One of the original class, Mark Hancock, 57, says students didn't know what to think. "Jones was the most popular teacher in school. He was only 10 years older than us, so we trusted and liked him a lot.’

Jones went on to tell his students that the experiment was not a game but a movement, involving 1,000 other high schools around the USA. A national leader would shortly appear on television to announce a third political party in the country.

"At that point, it became scary and confusing," Hancock says. ‘If you broke the rules, you would get in trouble with his secret police, who were unknown to us. He had snitches that would turn friends in voluntarily. There was this real fear and intimidation. It was like a police state.

"He broke up lines of communication between students. Some had been friends for 10 years, but you couldn't trust anybody. If you had any doubts or questions or thoughts of resistance, you couldn't tell anyone because you would get in trouble. You didn't dare ask whether it was real or not.

After complaints from teachers and parents, and aware that the experiment was getting out of control, Jones ended it by calling a rally to which hundreds of students flocked. Only then did he reveal it was a hoax. He projected footage of Hitler and the Nazi rallies on the wall to show how easily the students had been made to behave like fascists.

Another classmate, Philip Neel, commented that, “Mr Jones was very intense, energetic and charismatic. He filled the hour with convincing talk about how discipline and community were positive," says Neel. He says the experience taught him it could happen to anyone. "The most dangerous thing is if someone says 'I could never do that.”

Would Ron Jones do The Wave again? No, he says, because it put people in danger. "I'm very glad I did it ….Is it valuable? Yes, but it's dangerous too." Jones says people email him constantly wanting to recreate the experiment. Recently, a British television company proposed it as a reality TV show. But Jones refused to co-operate. "You can't take children and place them in danger. You unleash something in your own soul’, he says ‘The reality that you like it, and that order and control are pretty exciting. So we're all capable of this nightmare."

A few years ago, the experiment was recreated for an acclaimed German film called Die Welle ('The Wave'). It is available with English subtitles and is well worth a watch.

 
As I said I don't know the quotes Lineker was responding to and quite honestly why would anyone in today's world compare anything to the Holocaust. Nothing would ever come close to it so your question is pretty facile
He never mentioned the holocaust!! Christ some rearranging of the facts going on in this thread now.
 
Even better than Die Welle is the movie Look Who's Back [Er ist Wieder Da] mainly because it is also a very good black comedy. One particular scene involving a dog, about 40 minutes in, is worthy of Chris Morris.

The basic premise is that Hitler does not die in his bunker at the end of WW2. Instead, he wakes up in Berlin...in 2014. After getting his bearings he is discovered by an unemployed TV producer, Fabian Sawatzki. Sawatzki thinks Hitler is some sort of performance artist and takes him around the country, talking to the general population, for a TV piece he has envisaged. Hitler, however, sees this as a chance to regain his popularity and power.

What is remarkable about this film is that it is only partly acted. The film deliberately set out to see how ordinary Germans would react to the presence of a resurrected Hitler in their midst. And the results were disturbing, as well as amusing. Perhaps the nearest point of reference would be Sacha Baron Cohen's Borat and Ali G.

See here for more on that:


"The casting process included having to cold-call the Deutsche Oper in Berlin, pretending to be Hitler asking for tickets to a Wagner opera, as well as reciting one of his speeches."

Although the movie was well-received, it did not receive much of a cinema release over here as far as I know. Fortunately, it can be viewed in its entirety with English subtitles on YouTube:

 
He never mentioned the holocaust!! Christ some rearranging of the facts going on in this thread now.
While you're correct he never mentioned the Holocaust, absolutely everyone knows if you reference political speech in 1930s Germany a association will be made with the Nazis and their actions.
Now he's either a fool who didn't realize this,or he knew full well how it would be received and said it anyway.
 
As far as I can tell, Lineker was cautioning us against the slippery slope that was described in Philip Zimbardo’s seminal book The Lucifer Effect and the chilling documentary Five Steps to Tyranny:



The well-known brown eyed, blue eyed people class experiment shown at the beginning is particularly salient.

Of course, it is not inevitable that such trajectories will always be followed. For example, smoking cannabis does not automatically entail that whoever does so is fated to become a heroin addict.

Such cautionary arguments also show up in debates about abortion and euthanasia. But again, it is not a foregone conclusion that women will eventually seek to terminate a pregnancy for the most trivial of reasons, or that doctor-assisted suicide will come to be sanctioned for eminently treatable health issues. In fact, the evidence tends to suggest quite the opposite.

Nevertheless, the examples cited in the documentary (Rwanda, Palestine, the former Yugoslavia) show that this can happen, that descents to the bottom of the slope that end in genocide have repeatedly occurred. This is because we are are a tribalistic species who divide the world into ‘us’ and ‘them’, and the empathy that we feel towards others only tends to be extended to those who we identify with in some way. Populists are especially good at exploiting these tendencies.

Plus, we are more conformist and obedient to authority, and more willing to harm others than many of us realise, as demonstrated by the famous Milgram study and the Stanford Prison experiment (which are both depicted and discussed) in the documentary.

And so while it could be argued that what Lineker said might not be historically accurate, his tweet is certainly supported by the aforementioned research in social psychology and by the horrendous real world examples that are highlighted in the video.

What a fascinating documentary, if a little scary.
 
Where has he referenced the holocaust? It would, of course, have been nonsense if he had because it is not remotely the same thing. He said the language being used was similar to the tone of that which was used in Germany pre-holocaust. It's really key to understand that the holocaust and those atrocities that the Nazi's committed did not happen over night. They were built up over time with brain washing and de-humanising of certain elements of society, ultimately targeting the Jewish communities to the extreme. There is nowhere that GL has compared it to the holocaust, but it is very important to understand what is going on with the way these cunts use the same words, repeatedly, and people begin to believe them unequivocally. It is important to get the views of the Jewish people on this, but they are quite clearly mis-interpreting what he is insinuating and i think Gary should be clear on that.

Here is a tweet from a German professor who specialises in migration:
 

It's funny isn't it, how when actual holocaust survivor Joan Salter told Braverman her rhetoric was reminiscent of 1930's Germany no one went crazy. No one said she was bringing up the holocaust (because she didn't). No one trying to sell a book said "Shame on you!".

Incidentally, this same woman who thinks Lineker mentioning 1930's Germany is out of line had no problem linking Jeremy Corbyn to the holocaust...





While you're correct he never mentioned the Holocaust, absolutely everyone knows if you reference political speech in 1930s Germany a association will be made with the Nazis and their actions.
Now he's either a fool who didn't realize this,or he knew full well how it would be received and said it anyway.

It's very convenient for the ERG and Tories to pretend he brought up the holocaust, or was referring to it, because it mean no one can ever warn about the descent into fascism because it's not reached the stage of genocide yet.
 
Is the UNHCR part of his populist followers?
If they believe his populist pronouncements then Yes. Look, Lineker is a social media influencer who aims to please his followers (virtually calling the tories Nazis seems to have given those followers a big hard on, no?) but if he talks utter garbage then he needs calling out otherwise people would believe him and that is dangerous. Is there a bit of truth in what he says, yes, but there is a little bit of truth in what covid vaccine deniers believe, or climate deniers believe. Basically there is not enough truth in what he says to merit the saying. It's manipulation.
 

The protests about what he said are pure obfuscation, they are a smokescreen for fundamental economic and social failings. This is standard practice, and all part of government culture war strategy. They want that, so the nation turns on each other and they build a wall of excuses for their failings - it's the wokes, the lefty lawyers, the civil servants, the French and the snowflakes, not their 'destined to fail' new bill that they ABSOLUTELY KNOW is in breach of international law.
 

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