The British Monarchy

Tim of the Oak said:
So the 83 year old has given her profound apologies and lost her job. Fulani said that’s not enough. I’m not sure if Fulani would be satisfied with a public flogging or does she want more extreme retribution (and compensation)?

I am happy to report that Fulani has recovered sufficiently to appear on Breakfast TV.
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Pleased to hear that Marlene is on the mend.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
From 4,000 miles away, it would appear Britain has SIGNIFICANTLY greater problems than an old lady asking another lady dressed in a fairly exotic outfit where she’s from. Indeed, when she goes on to ask “where are your people from?” isn’t the old lady making clear what she’s asking?

If this is now “racism,” the plot is lost, and I never want to EVER hear another person say they are some hyphenated nationality! No more Irish Americans, African Americans, Anglo Americans!

And, while we are at it, do we now get to demand that anyone identifying as British has to speak the King’s English at all times?

Where does it end?

The old lady was asking a simple question: “You look like you’re probably originally from Africa. Your skin colour, your hairstyle, your outfit are all screaming that to me. Where in Africa are you or your family from?”

“Oh no, I’m British! I was born here!”

Too bad the old dear didn’t snapback with…

“100% British, eh? So, then what’s with all this ‘cultural appropriation’ you’ve got going on, then?”

Faux outrage is the new National Pastime…that and turning what’s left of brains into mush by complete immersion in non-reality “Reality TV!”
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Spot on mate!
There's more going on in this world to be concerned about.
 
Berts Neck said:
I was born in Manchester but my parents are not English. I became a GP and was often interested in people's backgrounds/names and would quite often ask them about their heritage as firstly, it relaxed them, and having travelled extensively perhaps share some anecdotes. Not once did anyone compain or fail to answer. Showing an interest is different to racism. In fact my surname is very non English and many people ask me where it comes from and this issue made me think, if I was an obnxious bugger I could call the police, get the shopworker sacked, whatever. In my life that never crossed my mind, just nice people, showing an interest.
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I lived in West Africa for some time, the security guards at the entrance I use for the Etihad are Nigerian, I recognised their accent, I asked them where they were from and we've had a few good conversations about places, food, drink, music, they love Nigeria and so do I, and they were happy to chat with someone who appreciated their homeland and knew a bit about it.There's a Ghanaian lad now and I noticed he was different from the Nigerians, he's from Kumasi and he's Ashanti, again we had a good laugh about beer (Kumasi makes the best beer) food, high life music and so on.

None of these conversations would've been possible had I worried about asking where they were from.
 
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Berts Neck said:
I was born in Manchester but my parents are not English. I became a GP and was often interested in people's backgrounds/names and would quite often ask them about their heritage as firstly, it relaxed them, and having travelled extensively perhaps share some anecdotes. Not once did anyone compain or fail to answer. Showing an interest is different to racism. In fact my surname is very non English and many people ask me where it comes from and this issue made me think, if I was an obnxious bugger I could call the police, get the shopworker sacked, whatever. In my life that never crossed my mind, just nice people, showing an interest.
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Now you've done it Dr BN. You'll be the poster to go to on bluemoon, all us old geysers queuing up for an appointment.
I recommend you change your username.
 
Berts Neck said:
I was born in Manchester but my parents are not English. I became a GP and was often interested in people's backgrounds/names and would quite often ask them about their heritage as firstly, it relaxed them, and having travelled extensively perhaps share some anecdotes. Not once did anyone compain or fail to answer. Showing an interest is different to racism. In fact my surname is very non English and many people ask me where it comes from and this issue made me think, if I was an obnxious bugger I could call the police, get the shopworker sacked, whatever. In my life that never crossed my mind, just nice people, showing an interest.
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Yes but I bet your name is not Marlene.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
sacked because she asked a genuine question
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Oh, TH, that's possibly the least honest description of events I’ve seen?

She didn't "ask a genuine question" she asked successively -

1 “Where are you from?”​
​
2 “No where do you come from?​
​
3 “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”​
​
4 “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”​
​
5 “No, but what nationality are you?”​
​
6 “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”​
​
7 “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”​
​
8 “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean?”​
​

Now, I dont care if you think it's racist or not, by the 4th time of asking, it stops being polite and starts being an interrogation.

The 7th question - "where did you first come here?" is after she's been told twice that the other woman was born in London, and the tone of it shows it's no longer polite conversation but demanding.
​
 
I do think her comments were fairly ignorant and offensive. It wasn't like she just politely enquired where she was from, she rather laboured the point. If you read the entire exchange it's pretty excruciating.

Lady SH: “Where are you from?”

Ms Fulani: “Sistah Space.”

SH: “No where do you come from?

Ms Fulani: “We’re based in Hackney.”

SH: “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”

Ms Fulani: “I don’t know, they didn’t leave any records.”

SH: “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”

Ms Fulani: “Here, UK”

SH: “No, but what Nationality are you?”

Ms Fulani: “I am born here and am British.”

SH: “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”

Ms Fulani: “‘My people’, lady, what is this?”

SH: “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”

Ms Fulani: “Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50’s when…”

SH: “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean!”

Ms Fulani: “No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.”

SH: “Oh so you’re from….”
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Ric said:
I do think her comments were fairly ignorant and offensive. It wasn't like she just politely enquired where she was from, she rather laboured the point. If you read the entire exchange it's pretty excruciating.
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For me it's the 7th (SEVENTH!) time of asking that really reveals what's going on. "Oh I see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from" is just such a spectacularly inappropriate question to someone you don't know, and has already made it clear they don't want to discuss this with you.

And the "When did you first come here?" After already being told, twice, that she's from the UK and was born here shows she's not even listening to the answers she's getting.

I listened to a conversation about this on the radio yesterday on the way in to work, and all of the people they had on relaying their experiences said there's 2 very different ways of asking this question and you know straight away which is which. One is genuine, it's showing interest in you, and the other is interrogating you "so they know what kind of mutt you are" and feel like they can put you in your place.

I also think people are being obscenely tolerant by saying it's just bad manners - if a professional Lady in Waiting for 60 years doesn't know what good manners are, who does?
 
domalino said:
Oh, TH, that's possibly the least honest description of events I’ve seen?

She didn't "ask a genuine question" she asked successively -

1 “Where are you from?”​
​
2 “No where do you come from?​
​
3 “No, what part of Africa are YOU from?”​
​
4 “Well, you must know where you’re from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?”​
​
5 “No, but what nationality are you?”​
​
6 “No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?”​
​
7 “Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you’re from. When did you first come here?”​
​
8 “Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end, you’re Caribbean?”​
​

Now, I dont care if you think it's racist or not, by the 4th time of asking, it stops being polite and starts being an interrogation.

The 7th question - "where did you first come here?" is after she's been told twice that the other woman was born in London, and the tone of it shows it's no longer polite conversation but demanding.
​
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Before reading your post and having read the previous 7 pages or so discussing this I was erring on the side of this just being a lady from a different generation being a bit out of touch and saying something which probably didn’t need so much attention and certainly not something that anybody should lose their jobs over.
That transcript does her no favours at all though and being so persistent takes it from harmless to something a bit more than that.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Poor lady, a lifetime of service, sacked because she asked a genuine question of someone in traditional African dress, who chose not to understand or appreciate that the continued probing wasn't the actions of someone trying to dismiss her Britishness; but to recognise and understand their truer heritage.

At a function trying to recognise some of the atrocities committed against young women in some of these countries.

A victim of a generational disconnect, not the actions of a racist, who are much more covert in their disgusting views of someone's skin colour.

We've jumped the shark at this point.

People can and are born British, but still champion their roots and must take every opportunity to do so, especially when an old lady who has probably visited more African countries than most, is trying to engage in genuine, polite conversation, however clumsy?

As always, I don't walk in the shoes of someone of colour, but that's my personal view from this side of the white fence!!
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Fair comment Tolm - I felt sorry for her too. As a British Indian, I have been asked all my life what my heritage is and where my surname has come from and I've proudly always said "I was born here but my parents are of Indian heritage and also explain how my parents came here" - its something I am very proud of.

I felt this lady was asking a genuine question but maybe just how she asked but the other lady in my opinion took it the wrong way and was maybe misinterpreted it.
 
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Tim of the Oak said:
So the 83 year old has given her profound apologies and lost her job. Fulani said that’s not enough. I’m not sure if Fulani would be satisfied with a public flogging or does she want more extreme retribution (and compensation)?

I am happy to report that Fulani has recovered sufficiently to appear on Breakfast TV.
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The quotes I saw suggested they weren't interested in her losing her role, and there's a good explanation from one of the other women who viewed the incident in the Guardian today.

The summary is that they didn't want her singled out, because that lets the palace simply carry on as if the only problem was an 83 year old who didn't understand modern life. Clearly the problem is that if someone who talks the way Susan Hussey did is regularly involved with these events and has been for many years, then there's something up with the culture at the palace.

All the women involved have suggested that they'd rather no-one lost their jobs, but that they were shown why it wasn't acceptable in the hope that it doesn't happen again. And that means it not happening because the people hosting these events understand why it's racist, and not just because they don't want to get into trouble.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ssey-resign-monarchy-race-remarks-institution
 
BlueHammer85 said:
It can only be a positive

people will approach the 'where do you come from' to a black person with a bit more sensitivity going forward
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So we can no longer ask anyone where they are from?

Black , white or whatever I often ask where someone is from ...especially if they have an accent.

Scouse accent? Where are you from you scouse thieving ****?
Cockney? Where are you from you shandy drinking soft twat?
 
mancityvstoke said:
So we can no longer ask anyone where they are from?
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Of course, and if the answer is Hackney, you accept that.

Continually asking someone who is British and was born in this country "where they are from" until finally you decide that they're "from" another country, is where the lack of sensitivity comes in.
 
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