The Holistic Approach

[meeesh]

Firstly the notion that RVP won the league for United is frankly bollocks. United statistically did not improve from season 2011/12. RVP scored 26 goals compared to Rooney's 27 the season before.

RVP, scoring 26 league goals is about standard for United's main man. Let's not forget that there's normally 7-10 penalties per season for their penalty taker. If Rooney had taken the pens that RVP did, their league totals would have been similar last year.

United bought the leagues best striker, statistically they went backwards. It was City that drastically under achieved and went backwards at a canter.86-89 points will be required nearly every year to win the Prem.
United got 89 points, but still wouldn't have won the league in 2011/12.

We dropped what? 8 more points at home than the season before? Only 3 more than the season before away from home.
So you could argue that our home form cost us, reverse the derby and things would have looked a lot closer.

RVP was a good signing but he did nothing the Rooney didn't do the season before.

That asides, the holistic approach is or seems to be looking good. We have bought round pegs for round holes. Siging a Cavanini or a Falcao would have been detrimental to the team. Neither are as good as Aguero, yet both would demand to be top dog, where as Sergio is a great team player, and great impact sub and all in all a very good man to have around.

An elite signing would demand to play week in week out. How do you build a team based on this? The players we have bought seem ideal for what we need, I along with many fans believe that pace on the left and cover at right sided centre half are all we are short of an excellent squad.

The holistic approach has arguably been seen in full working order already. The players seem happier, some egos have left and even the wages seem more parable throughout the squad.
The ideas of the Spaniards and Pellegrini have made our squad look significantly stronger more balance, I dare say a tighter group with a team ethos at heart.

Emphasis seems to be with Zabba, Richards, Kompany, Aguero, Milner and Nastasic to front the squad, all players with incredible team ethic. Navas is a hard working winger, Jovetic is a grafter with a great team ethic as is Negredo and Fernadinho gave up what £4 million to join us.
We have added four international players, strong, established players yet reduced our wage bill. This makes it hard to mock the 'holistic approach'.

Pellegrini has or seems to have got the squad believing they are a team. He hears rumours in the paper, he tells the media that he is happy with his squad, but if the right player comes up, well we'll always consider it. He hears rumours about Dzeko, what does he do? He tells the World that he believes Dzeko to be a great player with an important future at City. I loved Mancini, but he sometimes didn't play the game.

Pellegrini will tell the media that Dzeko is irraplacable, a great player, someone he's admired for years. This has three very good effects.
1. Dzeko feels great, happy to play and builds his confidence. Then we see some great performances in some very difficult conditions.
2. Tell the rest of the squad that he has faith in the players here. That he will give everyone a chance.
3. Indicates to the World that Dzeko is important, even if he isn't. Thus keeping his value high.

As I say I loved Mancini, I highly rate Mourinho, but as a business man, I wouldn't want them doing my sales and purchasing.
Both make it abundantly clear that they want to buy, that they will buy at almost any price, driving prices up. Both will also make it clear as day if they dislike a player, and his value will plummet.

In my eventual summary. I think we have a better team, a better squad, and happier squad and youth will see that the appointment of Viera as an indication that we intend to take our youth very seriously.

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all

Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!

Don't get ahead of yourself lad coz u have had a few plaudits off members of the "clique"

 

[pee dubya]

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all

Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!

Don't get ahead of yourself lad coz u have had a few plaudits off members of the "clique"

He's talking more sense than you are.

 

[meeesh]

Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!

Don't get ahead of yourself lad coz u have had a few plaudits off members of the "clique"

He's talking more sense than you are.

Nobody talks sense on here you should know that by now,you been around long enough

 

[pee dubya]

Don't get ahead of yourself lad coz u have had a few plaudits off members of the "clique"

He's talking more sense than you are.

Nobody talks sense on here you should know that by now,you been around long enough

Nah occasionally there's a shining beacon of sense amidst the ocean of turd. I believe we've just witnessed some.

 

[johnmc]

You have lost me with the last part of your clever arse comment again am afraid,please elaborate a bit further

He means that unless you can show him a United that didn't sign Van Persie to compare to, you can't possibly state that Van Persie won them the league as fact. You can only surmise that he did, the fact is you don't know for sure. They may have given more games to Rooney and Hernandez without him and they went on to score a hatful. It's not likely but it's possible. They could have won by a larger margin without him. Again unlikely but possible.

Ah rite OK I see what he means now,thanks for explaining.he was still just wanting to cause an argument I think,and I'm more than happy to oblige all the same,as much as I hate the dutch rapist and the rag twats,IMO he won em the title last season,and many,many people (not necessarily Blues) will not disagree with that fact or not

No reason to argue with you. Just stating that it wasn't a fact. If they didnt sign him it might have been someone else. If we played to our capabilities we could have won the league last year regardless of his goals. He will still be there this season and I am fancying us to win it.

 

[SWP's back]

And I'm an idiot according to swps back hahahahahahahahaha

Yes but that is clear for all to see.

-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:16 pm --

Look at the rags stats,stats are what you call fact,most shots,most assists,and most importantly for them twats most goals,so try and go off topic and being a smart arse all u want

And answer the question I posed to you was you away or somert ? Because you have missed a point somewhere along the line

No you misunderstand the meaning of the word fact. I don't need to look at stats. If you can show me a parallel universe where the rags didnt sign van Persie then fine.

You have lost me with the last part of your clever arse comment again am afraid,please elaborate a bit further

For a start you don't understand the above nor the meaning of the word fact.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:18 pm --<br /><br />

Firstly the notion that RVP won the league for United is frankly bollocks. United statistically did not improve from season 2011/12. RVP scored 26 goals compared to Rooney's 27 the season before.

RVP, scoring 26 league goals is about standard for United's main man. Let's not forget that there's normally 7-10 penalties per season for their penalty taker. If Rooney had taken the pens that RVP did, their league totals would have been similar last year.

United bought the leagues best striker, statistically they went backwards. It was City that drastically under achieved and went backwards at a canter.86-89 points will be required nearly every year to win the Prem.
United got 89 points, but still wouldn't have won the league in 2011/12.

We dropped what? 8 more points at home than the season before? Only 3 more than the season before away from home.
So you could argue that our home form cost us, reverse the derby and things would have looked a lot closer.

RVP was a good signing but he did nothing the Rooney didn't do the season before.

That asides, the holistic approach is or seems to be looking good. We have bought round pegs for round holes. Siging a Cavanini or a Falcao would have been detrimental to the team. Neither are as good as Aguero, yet both would demand to be top dog, where as Sergio is a great team player, and great impact sub and all in all a very good man to have around.

An elite signing would demand to play week in week out. How do you build a team based on this? The players we have bought seem ideal for what we need, I along with many fans believe that pace on the left and cover at right sided centre half are all we are short of an excellent squad.

The holistic approach has arguably been seen in full working order already. The players seem happier, some egos have left and even the wages seem more parable throughout the squad.
The ideas of the Spaniards and Pellegrini have made our squad look significantly stronger more balance, I dare say a tighter group with a team ethos at heart.

Emphasis seems to be with Zabba, Richards, Kompany, Aguero, Milner and Nastasic to front the squad, all players with incredible team ethic. Navas is a hard working winger, Jovetic is a grafter with a great team ethic as is Negredo and Fernadinho gave up what £4 million to join us.
We have added four international players, strong, established players yet reduced our wage bill. This makes it hard to mock the 'holistic approach'.

Pellegrini has or seems to have got the squad believing they are a team. He hears rumours in the paper, he tells the media that he is happy with his squad, but if the right player comes up, well we'll always consider it. He hears rumours about Dzeko, what does he do? He tells the World that he believes Dzeko to be a great player with an important future at City. I loved Mancini, but he sometimes didn't play the game.

Pellegrini will tell the media that Dzeko is irraplacable, a great player, someone he's admired for years. This has three very good effects.
1. Dzeko feels great, happy to play and builds his confidence. Then we see some great performances in some very difficult conditions.
2. Tell the rest of the squad that he has faith in the players here. That he will give everyone a chance.
3. Indicates to the World that Dzeko is important, even if he isn't. Thus keeping his value high.

As I say I loved Mancini, I highly rate Mourinho, but as a business man, I wouldn't want them doing my sales and purchasing.
Both make it abundantly clear that they want to buy, that they will buy at almost any price, driving prices up. Both will also make it clear as day if they dislike a player, and his value will plummet.

In my eventual summary. I think we have a better team, a better squad, and happier squad and youth will see that the appointment of Viera as an indication that we intend to take our youth very seriously.

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all

Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!

and the coup de grace.

 

[schfc6]

Stopped reading after the RVP was frankly bollocks line,dress it up all you want after that,about City that is,but thing is the stats don't lie,some people just don't seem to want to acknowledge it that's all

Correct... You couldn't be more right. Wayne Rooney scored more than RVP in the 2011/12 season. Manchester United scored more in the 2011/12 season. So you're right that stats don't lie. Manchester United + RVP were statistically worse last year than they were the year before.

Perhaps you should have read on before looking so stupid!!

Don't get ahead of yourself lad coz u have had a few plaudits off members of the "clique"

That's a fantastic repost. Proves not only that statistics are something you fail to understand but a basic grasp of the English language escapes you.

I'm all ears, please explain these 'stats' and how you interpret them. As I see it, as my clique see it, more importantly as the statistics show United were statistically better in 2011/12 than 2012/13!

Stats have also shown that a decent percentage of bluemoon users can't grasp basic English.

 

[1.618034]

Arsenal have been the model of an holistic approach, one manager, no 'star' signings, kids coming through the youth set-up, and they've won bugger all. Chelsea have been the model of a non-holistic approach, lots of managers, plenty of 'star' signings, no kids coming through, and have won plenty.

The last time Arsenal spent what we have this season on good value, quality European/world talent was just before they became "invincible"...

You think our signings are as good as Bergkamp, Pires, Overmars, Vierra, Henry? Since they stopped competing for Europe's finest they've stopped winning.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Since Arsenal stopped spending they stopped winning.

How many of those players had you honestly heard of before they went to Arsenal? Bergkamp had just come off a couple of poor seasons at Inter (11 goals in 51 games), Vierra(sic) came from Cannes... Need I go on?

Arsenal changed their policy when they went to the new stadium and started buying/poaching kids, French ones mainly to save money... We're not saving money, just using it wisely. Like how Arsenal forgot how to do.

And actually Chelsea under Mourinho didn't really go for major "marquee" signings but just spent a lot of money (about £80M funnily enough) on a few good European/world players (Tiago (£10 million) from Benfica, Michael Essien (£24.4 million) from Olympique Lyonnais, Didier Drogba (£24 million) from Olympique de Marseille, Mateja Kežman (£5.4 million) from PSV, and Porto pair Ricardo Carvalho (£19.8 million) and Paulo Ferreira (£13.3 million). Good players but hardly household names in Britain before they went to The Bridge....

When Roman did really start interfering and splashing the Roubles on his own "marquee" signings, like Shevchenko (£31M a club record) Torres (£50M...), it was in desperation... They're not still doing it now are they? They've slipped backwards in the PL and OK they won the CL but Christ, Liverpool won it under Benitez so it's not as hard as we've made it look, thus far!

if you can't see the parallels between us now and Arsenal and Chelsea just before they started to dominate then I can't say any more. Not saying we are going to dominate but as a City Fan I like the look of where we're holistically heading.


Together.

 

[ManCitizens.]

It was Van Persie's goals that won the title for United last season, and I have a sneaking feeling that it will be Rooney's that win the title for Chelsea this season. You can tell me how wonderful this new 'holistic' approach is at the end of the season when the title's in the bag. Until then, I'm a sceptic I'm afraid.

Crucially, I don't think last season was a fair reflection of the talent and quality in the squad. For many reasons we had a squad which under performed both collectively and individually. This summer the squad has been balanced in a fashion which we desperately needed. Right now it's arguably the best in the league.

Just my opinion, but at the level we're at, the players other people buy isn't what's important. It's how our teams progress, evolve, and ultimately deliver. I know you're sceptical about the way the club's being run but all I can say is give it a year. This is just the beginning.

I agree that the team under-performed last season, and I agree with you about the reason that happened. This season, we won't have that excuse/reason so we should be able to gauge the ultimate holistic manager (Pellegrini) up against the ultimate non-holistic manager (Mourinho), and our much praised holistic transfer policy against their much criticised non-holistic transfer policy. If we come out on top, not only can you rest assured that I'll be absolutely delighted, I'll also be on here eating my words, but my instinct tells me Chelsea will win the League. Hope I'm wrong.

I think your missing the point. One year won't determine the success or failure of our policy right now. Judge it after five years, we're aiming for at least one trophy a season with the addition of academy players becoming regular first team players. Rekik and Guidetti are the only two on the verge of being ready for our first team in my opinion.

 

[blueyorkie]

It was Van Persie's goals that won the title for United last season, and I have a sneaking feeling that it will be Rooney's that win the title for Chelsea this season. You can tell me how wonderful this new 'holistic' approach is at the end of the season when the title's in the bag. Until then, I'm a sceptic I'm afraid.

Crucially, I don't think last season was a fair reflection of the talent and quality in the squad. For many reasons we had a squad which under performed both collectively and individually. This summer the squad has been balanced in a fashion which we desperately needed. Right now it's arguably the best in the league.

Just my opinion, but at the level we're at, the players other people buy isn't what's important. It's how our teams progress, evolve, and ultimately deliver. I know you're sceptical about the way the club's being run but all I can say is give it a year. This is just the beginning.

I agree that the team under-performed last season, and I agree with you about the reason that happened. This season, we won't have that excuse/reason so we should be able to gauge the ultimate holistic manager (Pellegrini) up against the ultimate non-holistic manager (Mourinho), and our much praised holistic transfer policy against their much criticised non-holistic transfer policy. If we come out on top, not only can you rest assured that I'll be absolutely delighted, I'll also be on here eating my words, but my instinct tells me Chelsea will win the League. Hope I'm wrong.

As far as I can see Chelsea will go into next season with much the same defence as last time round. That is a disaster waiting to happen, any team who relies on Luiz to defend can't be a realistic title prospect, add to that the ageing nature of Terry, Lampard and Cole look like 2nd to fourth to me.