Officially I think we've allowed the Ukrainians to use them. It's doubtfully that they would be able to do so without UK technical assistance or platform. Russia certainly seems to view it as a UK military action.We’ve launched missiles into Russia?!
‘The UK launched 12 cruise missiles into, actually into Russia’.I suppose it's gone almost unnoticed because things around Russia/Ukraine have been gradually heating up over time, but in the last 24 hours it seems the UK launched 12 cruise (storm shadow) missiles actually into Russia. I'm not debating the rights/wrongs of that (there is a Russia/Ukraine thread for that). What I am wondering is if there should have been some sort of parliamentary recall or debate beforehand? I remember the fiery discussions in parliament before taking action in Iraq and Syria so I wonder why this process was not applicable here?
From what I have read , Ukraine has been using British equipment including Challenger tanks inside the Kursk salient since August. Tanks vs Missiles? Not much difference imo.Yes, I'm surprised the Tories didn't look to score a cheap point tbh. I realise we've probably already got general parliamentary consensus on 'support for Ukraine', but I think launching strikes actually into Russia might have been worth a quick debate first.
I think the difference is the Ukrainians can independently operate the tanks etc so we are in those cases just giving them equipment to do with as they choose. Storm shadow needs to be programmed/targeted by us and probably launched from a UK platform - although from outside Russia. I agree the distinction may be a fine one / semantics but the Russians clearly see it that way.From what I have read , Ukraine has been using British equipment including Challenger tanks inside the Kursk salient since August. Tanks vs Missiles? Not much difference imo.
I'm not sure on the technologies involved. But it's just more sabre rattling from Putin and his gang as far as I'm concerned.I think the difference is the Ukrainians can independently operate the tanks etc so we are in those cases just giving them equipment to do with as they choose. Storm shadow needs to be programmed/targeted by us and probably launched from a UK platform - although from outside Russia. I agree the distinction may be a fine one / semantics but the Russians clearly see it that way.
Good politicians answer that. A lot of words without actually saying anything.
It would have been interesting to immediately ask her the same question re Putin who I think is also the subject of an ICC arrest warrant and see if it generated the same word salad of a non-answer. I suspect not.True. It should be a straightforward yes though. She knows that.
For Russia to come out and say this is just stupid rhetoric. What about Russia using North Korean and Belarusian troops, or Iranian drones? Should Ukraine now declare war on those? Iranian drones for a start have killed many Ukrainian civilians.I think the difference is the Ukrainians can independently operate the tanks etc so we are in those cases just giving them equipment to do with as they choose. Storm shadow needs to be programmed/targeted by us and probably launched from a UK platform - although from outside Russia. I agree the distinction may be a fine one / semantics but the Russians clearly see it that way.
I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of what we have done, just whether there should have been further debate in parliament before UK weapons were used actually in Russia as opposed to bits of Ukraine that Russia has illegally occupied.For Russia to come out and say this is just stupid rhetoric. What about Russia using North Korean and Belarusian troops, or Iranian drones? Should Ukraine now declare war on those? Iranian drones for a start have killed many Ukrainian civilians.
Storm Shadow isn't a nuclear weapon, it's a bunker buster that so far has only been used on military targets which are coordinating attacks against Ukraine. Russia has targeted civilians in Ukraine so Ukraine is well within its rights and doctrine to attack Russian military targets in Russia with whatever weapons it has.
I seriously doubt that the Russians will now declare nuclear war on the UK because of a possibility that a UK chap punched a few numbers into a laptop and then the Ukrainians loaded a Storm Shadow onto a Ukrainian jet and fired it.
You'd have to be extremely naive to believe that the UK is not directly engaged in the war elsewhere whether by supplying intelligence or whatever. Why else have numerous western spy planes been flying over the Black Sea for the last few years? You can also bet that every western military satellite is sat above Eastern Ukraine and we aren't keeping that information for ourselves. It also wouldn't surprise me if special forces are operating on the ground.
There wasn't a debate when Challenger tanks rolled into KurskI think you misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of what we have done, just whether there should have been further debate in parliament before UK weapons were used actually in Russia as opposed to bits of Ukraine that Russia has illegally occupied.
It also seems to be OK to lie on your CV.Might as well make it legal for MPs and ministers to wear racing outfits with names of their donors on it so we know who they are going to sell out to over the people they are supposed to represent.
Democracy is dead if Starmer lines us up for BlackRock to control the country.
I think there are a lot of good points made here, particularly about farmers being asset rich, but not cash rich. Selling land being difficult as well.
I don’t think this policy, like a lot of early policies have been popular at all.
I think her CV would best be described as a work of fiction, rather than merely containing a few lies.It also seems to be OK to lie on your CV.
Storm Shadow is air launched. It is released from a Ukrainian aircraft being flown by a Ukrainian pilot. Why would it be doubtful they could do it themselves? They will have been given the ground equipment and training to do it. They’re not stupid.Officially I think we've allowed the Ukrainians to use them. It's doubtfully that they would be able to do so without UK technical assistance or platform. Russia certainly seems to view it as a UK military action.
Yes, admittedly I've no idea if the typhoon is the only airframe with the clearance to launch storm shadow. You are absolutely right, it must have been Ukrainians using their own airframes.Storm Shadow is air launched. It is released from a Ukrainian aircraft being flown by a Ukrainian pilot. Why would it be doubtful they could do it themselves? They will have been given the ground equipment and training to do it. They’re not stupid.
The fact that Russia treats it as UK military action is just posturing by Putin.