The Labour Government

[Chippy_boy]

I debunked every scenario you put up, showing your state of total blinkered-ness.

Sharia law will never be part of legal process in this country. This is 99.9999999% more likely to be true than Labour never winning a seat in the north.

Re 1. Agreeing with the consensus about something that is obviousty true, is not what I would call "blinkered", I would call it "not being in denial".

Re 2, I agree, I said so.

 

[inbetween]

There is no chance of sharia law ever being part of the legal system here.

That’s just your Islamaphobia showing. It’s based on nothing but your gut feeling, a bit like the two tier nonsense that I debunked with you the other day.

There are over 50 sharia courts in the UK, they have no legal authority but they do have authority in communities. My niece is a Muslim and married a Muslim man. They had their Nikah ceremony and never registered the marriage so she has no marriage rights. That doesn't matter now but what happens if something goes wrong one day?

If the worse happened and she ever wanted to get a divorce then she'd have to go to a shariah court and follow Islamic rules to grant the divorce. The most notable thing for divorce is the husband must grant it, what if he doesn't? She could then just ignore it given the marriage wasn't ever legal but think of everything that entails and the impact. She could essentially be ostracised within her community.

The government hides behind what you have just said. Yeah it isn't part of the legal system but let's not pretend that it isn't being practiced and doesn't pose a huge problem, especially for women who are especially isolated by Islam. I am not Islamaphobic but I am certainly suspicious of a religion which enforces itself through religious law and clearly with little regard to the actual law.

 

[mexico1970]

There are over 50 sharia courts in the UK, they have no legal authority but they do have authority in communities. My niece is a Muslim and married a Muslim man. They had a Nikkah ceramony and never registered the marriage so she has no marriage rights.

If the worse happened and she ever wanted to get a divorce then she'd have to go to a shariah court and follow Islamic rules to grant the divorce. The most notable thing for divorce is the husband must grant it, what if he doesn't? She could then just ignore it given the marriage wasn't ever legal but think of everything that entails and the impact.

The government hides behind what you have just said. Yeah it isn't part of the legal system but let's not pretend that it isn't being practiced and it poses a huge problem, especially for women who are especially isolated by Islam. I am not Islamaphobic but I am certainly suspicious of a religion and one which enforces itself through religious law.

Yeah, but apart from that?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

There are over 50 sharia courts in the UK, they have no legal authority but they do have authority in communities. My niece is a Muslim and married a Muslim man. They had their Nikah ceremony and never registered the marriage so she has no marriage rights. That doesn't matter now but what happens if something goes wrong one day?

If the worse happened and she ever wanted to get a divorce then she'd have to go to a shariah court and follow Islamic rules to grant the divorce. The most notable thing for divorce is the husband must grant it, what if he doesn't? She could then just ignore it given the marriage wasn't ever legal but think of everything that entails and the impact.

The government hides behind what you have just said. Yeah it isn't part of the legal system but let's not pretend that it isn't being practiced and it poses a huge problem, especially for women who are especially isolated by Islam. I am not Islamaphobic but I am certainly suspicious of a religion and one which enforces itself through religious law.

The Jewish have their own community courts too.

Each household has its own rules.

It isn’t for me to change a community’s customs. That would have to be done from within that community.

 

[inbetween]

The Jewish have their own community courts too.

Each household has its own rules.

It isn’t for me to change a community’s customs. That would have to be done from within that community.

You're missing the point. It is law in this country that every person is free, free of discrimination and is treated equally. Sharia courts impose restrictions on the equality and freedom of people. If Jewish people have similar courts then yeah they should be looked at too.

I say Islam just because I've seen it with my own eyes. I also know Islam through seeing it through my own eyes in the Middle East. It isn't pretty and it isn't something that we should just accept here as part and parcel of culture.

Culture I can accept, religious domination through law whether actually legal or not is unacceptable.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

There are over 50 sharia courts in the UK, they have no legal authority but they do have authority in communities. My niece is a Muslim and married a Muslim man. They had their Nikah ceremony and never registered the marriage so she has no marriage rights. That doesn't matter now but what happens if something goes wrong one day?

If the worse happened and she ever wanted to get a divorce then she'd have to go to a shariah court and follow Islamic rules to grant the divorce. The most notable thing for divorce is the husband must grant it, what if he doesn't? She could then just ignore it given the marriage wasn't ever legal but think of everything that entails and the impact. She could essentially be ostracised within her community.

The government hides behind what you have just said. Yeah it isn't part of the legal system but let's not pretend that it isn't being practiced and doesn't pose a huge problem, especially for women who are especially isolated by Islam. I am not Islamaphobic but I am certainly suspicious of a religion which enforces itself through religious law and clearly with little regard to the actual law.

If they own the house together already, that's taken care of.

For everything else see constructive trusts. An Islamic marriage probably creates a constructive trust.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You're missing the point. It is law in this country that every person is free, free of discrimination and is treated equally. Sharia courts impose restrictions on the equality and freedom of people. If Jewish people have similar courts then yeah they should be looked at too.

I say Islam just because I've seen it with my own eyes. I also know Islam through seeing it through my own eyes in the Middle East. It isn't pretty and it isn't something that we should just accept here as part and parcel of culture.

Culture I can accept, religious domination through law whether actually legal or not is unacceptable.

If someone doesn’t believe they are free, they have the opportunity to challenge that under English law.

 

[inbetween]

If someone doesn’t believe they are free, they have the opportunity to challenge that under English law.

This is stupid because you're basically saying that discrimination is acceptable on the understanding that somebody can challenge it if need be. Discrimination however is NEVER acceptable because it is against the law. If sharia courts and underhand imposition of religious law are a proven source of discrimination then they should be outlawed.

Islam just for example is discriminatory against women, it is therefore extremely stupid not to be very cautious towards the behaviour of religious law bodies whether they have any legal standing or not.

There are also minorities too. Gay people in Islamic communities are basically heretics. The fact is they can't exist in such a community so is it acceptable to say in the 21st century well tough that's life?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

This is stupid because you're basically saying that discrimination is acceptable on the understanding that somebody can challenge it if need be. Discrimination however is NEVER acceptable because it is against the law. If sharia courts and underhand imposition of religious law are a proven source of discrimination then they should be outlawed.

Islam just for example is discriminatory against women, it is therefore extremely stupid not to be very cautious towards the behaviour of religious law bodies whether they have any legal standing or not.

There are also minorities too. Gay people in Islamic communities are basically heretics. The fact is they can't exist in such a community so is it acceptable to say in the 21st century well tough that's life?

That is for the community to do though.

If it was as straight forward as you suggest, any good barrister could prosecute the people who adhere to these customs.

They can’t as they are a religious rite. Should someone in that community believe they are being discriminated against, they have the right to challenge that legally.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This is stupid because you're basically saying that discrimination is acceptable on the understanding that somebody can challenge it if need be. Discrimination however is NEVER acceptable because it is against the law. If sharia courts and underhand imposition of religious law are a proven source of discrimination then they should be outlawed.

Islam just for example is discriminatory against women, it is therefore extremely stupid not to be very cautious towards the behaviour of religious law bodies whether they have any legal standing or not.

There are also minorities too. Gay people in Islamic communities are basically heretics. The fact is they can't exist in such a community so is it acceptable to say in the 21st century well tough that's life?

I have to say this is a great response and far more eloquent and measured than what I was going to post.