The Labour Government

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

Islam is especially discriminatory against gay people,

True but it hasn't always been like that. Here's the gay Catholic scholar John Boswell writing in 1977:

‘Although the Qur’an and early religious writings of Islam display mildly negative attitudes towards homosexuality, Islamic society has generally ignored these deprecations, and most Muslim cultures have treated homosexuality with indifference, if not admiration. Almost without exception, the classic works of Arabic poetry and prose, from Abu Nuwas to the Thousand and One Nights, treat gay people and their sexuality with respect or casual acceptance…The Arabic language contains a huge vocabulary of gay erotic terminology…Erotic address by one male to another is the standard convention of Arabic love poetry; even poems really written to or for women use male pronouns and metaphors of male beauty: it is not uncommon to find poetry addressed to a female in which the object of the poet’s affections is praised for ‘a dark mustache over pearly white teeth’, or the ‘first downy beard over damask skin’. Poems about the physical allure of a young man’s first beard constitute an entire genre of Arabic poetry…’

Abu Nuwas was, incidentally, a wine-guzzling, bisexual hellraiser whose poetry reads like the lyrics to Pogues songs.

Boswell's thesis is corroborated by the UK Muslim intellectual Ziauddin Sardar in a chapter in his book Reading The Qur'an.

But anyway, fast-forward to the present and it there is no doubt that the landscape has changed, as most people know. These two recent personal accounts of what life has been like for them as gay Muslims are both sobering:

 

[Aphex]

So you thought you’d post it like it’s relevant today.
FFS.

Yes. Because, like I said, I wanted to know when it was from. I got it with no context. Isn't that how you find out? Or should I have started a new thread, my lord.

 

[Aphex]

Sad to bring it up, but will keep the gammons going.

See my west didsblue post. Jesus, a lot of soft lads on here these days.

 

[west didsblue]

Yes. Because, like I said, I wanted to know when it was from. I got it with no context. Isn't that how you find out? Or should I have started a new thread, my lord.

No it’s not how you find out if you don’t want to look a twat. Try YouTube or Google. It’s not hard.

It was pretty obvious that it wasn’t current. That amount of abuse levelled at PM would have been all over the news and it wouldn’t just be a YouTube clip posted by a randomer. Also a Prime Minister would be much better protected than just having a few coppers stood round him, and the fact they were shouting about Jimmy Savile was a giveaway as well. Only a moron would think it’s current and judging by the comments on YouTube there’s no shortage of them. To be honest, I don’t think you give a shit whether it was current because you just wanted to post something that shows Starmer as being unpopular because he’s not from a right wing party you support.

 

[Aphex]

No it’s not how you find out if you don’t want to look a twat. Try YouTube or Google. It’s not hard.

It was pretty obvious that it wasn’t current. That amount of abuse levelled at PM would have been all over the news and it wouldn’t just be a YouTube clip posted by a randomer. Also a Prime Minister would be much better protected than just having a few coppers stood round him, and the fact they were shouting about Jimmy Savile was a giveaway as well. Only a moron would think it’s current and judging by the comments on YouTube there’s no shortage of them. To be honest, I don’t think you give a shit whether it was current because you just wanted to post something that shows Starmer as being unpopular because he’s not from a right wing party you support.

He's never going to escape the Savile thing. It's still going today. Which is what peaked my interest. It's funny that you think that, the extreme left are very suspicious. Reminds me of this exchange

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Honestly why bother discussing something with an extremist even within the alt-right plane he resides?

It's a waste of time. Probably thinks a government agency are recording what he has for breakfast.

 

[Kompany Car]

Fascinating couple of posts @ZenHalfTimeCrock . I appreciate that its purely anecdotal but having worked with a number of people who were born in Pakistan who then moved to the UK as adults, they were always shocked at the more extreme interpretation of Islam that exists within some UK communities, to the extent that it isnt recognisable with their experiences growing up in Karachi, Lahore etc and is more aligned with the culture from more rural areas of Pakistan.

 

[hilts]

Ultimately, Sharia Law isn’t going to become common practice in the U.K., which was the original point of this debate.

What religious people do isn’t our business as long as it doesn’t affect us, which this doesn't in my eyes.

I hope for a world without religion, but it isn’t happening in any of our lifetimes.

You shouldn't really ever say never tbh, there isn't much to back that up. We have no idea to what extent demographics and immigration will change the nature of the country in the future.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You shouldn't really ever say never tbh, there isn't much to back that up. We have no idea to what extent demographics and immigration will change the nature of the country in the future.

Agreed and I only said never as a riposte to Chippy suggesting Labour will never win a seat again up north.

It’s about as likely as Halley’s Comet landing on the Lock Ness Monster though.

 

[hilts]

Agreed and I only said never as a riposte to Chippy suggesting Labour will never win a seat again up north.

It’s about as likely as Halley’s Comet landing on the Lock Ness Monster though.

I have only read the last couple of pages, I'm not sure how the topic has morphed into Shariah law.

Anyhow I briefly saw some figures from the census and the basics in terms of religion seemed to be the following from 2011 to 2021(can't remember the figures so some leeway please)

For the first time those saying they were Christian has dropped below 50%.. a reduction of about 13%. 30 odd % said no religion at all. The muslim number increased from 4 % go 6.5 % .

So it seems within 7 years we could well have more people as non religious than religious in fact I would say if we are talking actual belief then we are probably pretty much there already.

If these trends continue and add in further immigration due to climate change making Northern Europe more bearable then the race, if a few decades can be classed as a race(its pretty quick in relative terms changing a countries make up, seems to be between the non religious and how Islam will adapt to being more prevalent within these countries.

Will the ever growing people born into a Muslim faith but living amongst the ever growing non religious become less religious, more moderate or not change much af all.

If the west is becoming less religious does that mean other parts of the world will follow. Probably but I don't think it's gonna happen very quickly. Between now and whenever that happens it's hard to say what will happen.

It's gonna change though.