The Labour Government

bluenova said:
Are you suggesting we should be deporting British people, because immigrants are less likely to be taking money out of the system?

People who travel half way around the world, often making very difficult and dangerous journeys, tend not to be the type who are looking to sit around on the sofa, while waiting for their benefits to arrive. By definition, they tend to be people who are very determined, and very keen to improve their lives, and that usually involved working very hard, and contributing financially to our society.
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Ooh I see I've got your attention!
It's my Pleasure
 
tregyblue61 said:
1800 - 1 billion
1960 - 3 billion

15th November 2022 it reached 8 billion

2050 expected to be 9.7 billion and possibly peaking at 10.4 billion mid 2080's

It's expected to be 9 billion in 2037 which does mean it is slowing somewhat.
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That doesn’t take into account the ever improving drug/treatment cures for cancer and illnesses.
 
I get the feeling that Labour could give everyone 25k in cash and some would still be unhappy. (Probably they would say that while they deserve it, others don't.)

This country is in a bad place due to a) the bankers fucking the economy in 2008, b) austerity c) Brexit, d) Covid e) Ukraine and f) 14 years of government by a bunch of fuckwits, the best of whom was, probably, Cameron. The worst of them were not fit to be in charge of a whelk stall. Corruption and obsession with stupid culture wars on top of that.

Apart from that, we have a disproportionately aged/retired population which is growing bigger and will be for some years, and which costs a lot of money to maintain.

No government - not even a coalition of geniuses - could clear that little lot up overnight. It will take years of patient effort. Even that's assuming no new thing arises, like Trump potentially walking away from NATO, which would effectively force Europe - including us - to make terms with Putin, with all that entails.

People need to be patient because There Is No Alternative. Remember that line? Well, this time it's true. The Tories have had their chance. They have been tried, weighed in the balance and found wanting. Reform is a bunch of populist clowns with no more idea of running a country than an ass has of brewing beer. The Lib Dems? They might have some cool ideas, but I'm not sure I fancy them as a government.

We are where we are. It happens to be Shit Creek. Don't kid yourselves there are any easy answers because if there were, the Tories would have done it.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
That doesn’t take into account the ever improving drug/treatment cures for cancer and illnesses.
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Actually, it does.

Life expectancy has grown from 66 years in 2000 to 73 years in 2019. It's expected to be 77 years in 2050. Healthy life expectancy has grown 8% too. Fertility rates are up with the biggest growth in population being in Africa. Europe is expected to drop as fertility rates are falling.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Then they will have been processed and returned immediately. No need for hotels/detention centres.

If they suggest that they’ve lied on their first application, then that negates any appeal. If they were successful in their initial application, they wouldn’t have the need to get in a dinghy.

Asylum seekers arriving here in boats are not illegal immigrants. If they have had their case heard and rejected and try to come here, they would be illegally entering.
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Asylum seekers who enter the UK with no valid leave are illegal entrants and served the documentation stating this when they make a claim for asylum and have their initial asylum screening, it’s called an ILLEN101.
 
Scaley said:
Asylum seekers who enter the UK with no valid leave are illegal entrants and served the documentation stating this when they make a claim for asylum and have their initial asylum screening, it’s called an ILLEN101.
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But cannot be deported until their claim is heard.

If their claim has already been heard overseas and they cross the channel, we can deport them back to the country they have claimed to have come from in their rejected claim. We would have their finger prints on file, so they couldn’t then claim to be someone else.

Word would quickly get out that failed asylum seekers crossing the channel would not be allowed another hearing and that should be the deterrent for them risking their lives for no gain.
 
tregyblue61 said:
Actually, it does.

Life expectancy has grown from 66 years in 2000 to 73 years in 2019. It's expected to be 77 years in 2050. Healthy life expectancy has grown 8% too. Fertility rates are up with the biggest growth in population being in Africa. Europe is expected to drop as fertility rates are falling.
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Fair point but still many unknowns- could be a wonder drug that cures cancer rates way higher than expected
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
But cannot be deported until their claim is heard.

If their claim has already been heard overseas and they cross the channel, we can deport them back to the country they have claimed to have come from in their rejected claim. We would have their finger prints on file, so they couldn’t then claim to be someone else.

Word would quickly get out that failed asylum seekers crossing the channel would not be allowed another hearing and that should be the deterrent for them risking their lives for no gain.
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They are not deported, they are removed, apologies for appearing pedantic but administrative removal and deportation are totally different.
 
Worsleyweb said:
Well your implication is patently wrong and any reasonably educated man reading my post would not jump to the inaccurate conclusion you make.

Do you at least accept that the country is skint as 25 million people are essentially funding services for a further 43 million people? I don't see how that can be argued against?

High tax / high public sector economies don't work!

Lets go back to 1979! 83 percent tax! 27% inflation. It will end up approaching that with these at the helm if they do 10 years.

Where is the policy to increase employment and wages in the private sector - i have heard none. Not a single one.

Can someone enlighten me please?
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Yes. Let’s try our best to get back to the 1970s. God, I would love that. I’d dance in the street.

Prescription charges cost mere pence.
Virtually zero homelessness.
Free dental care.
Free optical care.
GPs available for everyone. Including home visits in the evenings and weekends.
A Navy only behind the US and Soviet Union in capability.
A fully equipped RAF.
A strong, well equipped Army.
Police stations in every town, Bobbies on every beat.
Properly funded NHS.
Free education from 4-21. For all.
A manufacturing base.
Houses for all. Council waiting lists measured in weeks and months. Not decades as now.
Private house prices averaged 3-4x average wage.
VAT in single figure percentage.
I could go on and on and on.
The 1970s were the best days in this country’s life.

And all of the above achieved with lower taxes than this last Tory govt. A lot lower.

But yeah, We now have a deputy PM from a working class background with a proud regional accent so let’s man the barricades.

Arsehole.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
Yes. Let’s try our best to get back to the 1970s. God, I would love that. I’d dance in the street.

Prescription charges cost mere pence.
Virtually zero homelessness.
Free dental care.
Free optical care.
GPs available for everyone. Including home visits in the evenings and weekends.
A Navy only behind the US and Soviet Union in capability.
A fully equipped RAF.
A strong, well equipped Army.
Police stations in every town, Bobbies on every beat.
Properly funded NHS.
Free education from 4-21. For all.
A manufacturing base.
Houses for all. Council waiting lists measured in weeks and months. Not decades as now.
Private house prices averaged 3-4x average wage.
VAT in single figure percentage.
I could go on and on and on.
The 1970s were the best days in this country’s life.

And all of the above achieved with lower taxes than this last Tory govt. A lot lower.

But yeah, We now have a deputy PM from a working class background with a proud regional accent so let’s man the barricades.

Arsehole.
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And, good music.
 
Worsleyweb said:
They pay tax! I was waiting for that! Who pays their wages they pay the tax on?

25 million people effectively fund the remaining 43 million. Prove me wrong!????
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Oh, I see.

Someone in the private sector making weapons is productive. Who buys the weapons? The state.
Soldiers are unproductive, they just cost productive taxpayers money.

No socialised medicine. Let's get back to Want, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness.

Close state schools - parents can pay to educate children. So parents have fewer children and suddenly there's even fewer people around to pay tax to support the non-taxpayers.

And of course, defund the police.

And no doubt all those different fire brigades looking for the insurance plaque on your burning house.

Oh, and some SME is going to build all those reservoirs to bring potable water to every home (well, those that want drinking water), and another will build a network of sewers to deal with your crap.
 
Rascal said:
You may have noticed mate, I am a Socialist, and I have barely said a good word about Keith since he became leader of the new labour renewal party of centrist neo-liberal stupidity.

I have no great hopes for Labour, I hope they prove me wrong but I cannot see it happening, there will be some sops to the working class but they will kow tow to the capitalist class first and foremost.

The less that Labour do, the more influence the nutters from Reform will have and that should scare people
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Scare them enough to vote?
 
PPT said:
We'll see.
When the boats keep arriving, and every Tom Dick & Harry is already screaming for funding which is just not possible. It won't take long.
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Why do you refer to boats arriving, do they get here on their own?

Do you know how many boats arrive in the UK every day?

Are you a Reform nutjob?

You obviously do not have a clue about economics or demography.

Simpletons do as simpletons do. Bless you kidda xx
 
Worsleyweb said:
The vast majority of people are thick. Lets say there are approaching 68 million people in the UK. Only 25 million are business owners or private sector workers. That means that the balance are public sector workers, students, kids, pensioners. or non economic contributors. Lets hammer the most productive and intelligent of that 25 million to keep funding the rest!

Madness - absolute madness. The upper 10% of that 25 million will just have less incentive to graft, take risks, create money save etc.

The problem with socialism every time is you eventually run our of other peoples money. If anyone can prove me wrong on that i will applaud them.
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“The vast majority of people are thick. Lets say there are approaching 68 million people in the UK.”
Let’s say the vast majority of people are thick. And don’t know how to use an apostrophe (eight-year-old stuff).
 
johnnytapia said:
Scare them enough to vote?
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There is no doubt in my mind that Reform will grow, they offer an alternative to the centrist Liberalism we have, there is no true Leftist alternative that can bring the working class on board.

There is a huge amount of political exclusion at the moment because i think our system is broken, It is an anachronism that votes are wasted and peoples votes do not translate into representation.

As a Communist, i believe in true democracy, but I also fear the tyranny of the minority and I fear the absolute tyranny of the majority
 
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