The Labour Government

Ooof .... some discontent amongst the ranks. I suppose at least one of them stayed on message, "I blame the Tories and erm Jeremy Corbyn" ;-)



 
Kompany Car said:
I don't think anyone would disagree with paying more tax, the problem is having visibility as to where it all goes and what measured improvements will be achieved.

If I hand over my hard earned cash for a service to be performed I can see when its been completed, if its to the required standard and its transparent who's getting paid what amount. The problem with taxation is, its not transparent, many see little tangible benefit. Schools are getting worse, hospitals dont have enough money, infrastructure projects are being cancelled, the military is shrinking, pension ages are rising, not enough police, prison full, swathes of homeless people etc.

Yet people such as myself are absolutely caned for tax because Im an easy PAYE target on a good salary.

Its absolutely correct that we all need to pay more tax, but there needs to be a lot more accountability around how that tax is spent.
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But people are expecting to see all these changes within just 4-6 months under Labour - surely resolving the Schools, NHS, infrastructure, Prisons etc will take years despite Tax increases.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
But people are expecting to see all these changes within just 4-6 months under Labour - surely resolving the Schools, NHS, infrastructure, Prisons etc will take years despite Tax increases.
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One second you’ve got a big list of all their achievements and next your telling us they can’t change much in 4-6 months.

What is it?
 
bluethrunthru said:
How old are you mate?
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Early 50s but have read enough in the past to understand that the solution to stagflation was to increase productivity not to stifle it.

I think some may have got me wrong, unions have their place in protecting workers from exploitation, demanding better safety etc but they severely handicapped the governments of the 70s in making the hard decisions which were necessary.

To be honest you look at the 70s and the present and economically they aren't too dissimilar. You had the oil embargo of the early 70s which drove inflation, similar to the effect of the war in Ukraine, low productivity, lots of "discussions" around immigration, the only thing we are missing is high unemployment (but I fear thats where we are heading).

As for your point re Labour and the positives of the Blair government, yes Sure start was a fantastic success and should have continued to be funded as it made a material difference to poorer communities, but Blair had an opportunity thats unlikely to be repeated. The global economy was more stable than any other time in history when Labour came to power in the mid 90s, he had the opportunity to set the UK on a course for success. Then theres the waste of money on various quangos and the 12Bn wasted on the failed NHS IT system, which is a "black hole" sized amount of money when corrected for inflation (this needs to become a new unit of measurement).

Finally following Thatchers criminal selling off of council houses, Blair presided over a period which saw a massive increase in buy to let mortgages, which set the grounds for the disparity between wages and house prices we have today. House prices went from roughly doubling every 10 yrs to more than tripling.
 
To the point of some of those MPs re the WASPI timing, whist I'm reserving judgement on them as government at the moment, they definitely seem shit at politics. Clearly they have a mostly hostile media to contend with but they don't actually help themselves.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
But people are expecting to see all these changes within just 4-6 months under Labour - surely resolving the Schools, NHS, infrastructure, Prisons etc will take years despite Tax increases.
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I dont expect to see an instant change, unlike many people I appreciate it takes time to work through the system, but my problem is how that improvement is measured.

For the last 30 plus years of taking an interest in politics, one thing that has been consistent regardless of the party in power is that if you fail to deliver, the feedback of the failure takes too long to become apparent to the tax payer. Meanwhile the government reframes the original goals to spin a success story.

It needs to be laid out, what we will see in 1yr, 3yrs and 5yrs as a result with hard numbers not arbitrary "targets", that makes it measurable, time bound and also forces people to be realistic and not sell an unattainable dream.
 
Kompany Car said:
Ok let me rephrase, accountability at the time of expenditure rather than a few years after the projects haven't been delivered to budget, in a timely manner and an acknowledgement where they have failed. A clear plan of how the failure will be prevented in the future and how the financial position will be recovered rather than just writing it off.

Its dead easy to keep spending money until you've used up your budget where oversight is poor and then ask for more, cap in hand a few years later, whilst only delivering a small percentage of what you promised to do. This issue is true not only for large projects like HS2 but for the thousands of projects run by both national and local government. I see it day in, day out with transport projects, many only costing a few million, where they are started, committed to in government plans, developed up to a AFC design, then shelved, never to be seen again. The same with defence projects, refits, facilities improvements, started and stopped continuously but its only a few million here and a few million there so you know its just wastage...

All I want for the tax I pay, is for people to say what they are going to do, deliver it on time and as close to budget as possible. It seems however like that is too much to ask.

I do agree that government should be boring, as with all the best leadership what you want are boring leaders that get on with the job, deliver and carry on quietly making things better and letting the actual results do the talking. The problem is everyone wants to be a celebrity these days.
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It would be the dream to see major projects come in on time and on budget however it will likely remain just that - a dream. Overrun in costs and time is not unique to the UK though. The new Berlin Airport started construction in 2006 and was due to open in 2011. It eventually opened in 2020.

Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to cost major projects or implement strong oversight, but in reality a budget is just an estimate designed to get a project started. It is rarely a realistic estimate of the actual cost or time involved. I sometimes think we would be better off accepting this fact rather than fretting over it :)
 
threespires said:
To the point of some of those MPs re the WASPI timing, whist I'm reserving judgement on them as government at the moment, they definitely seem shit at politics. Clearly they have a mostly hostile media to contend with but they don't actually help themselves.
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They do seem spectacularly tone deaf at times. I’m all for getting on with things but a bit of media management wouldn’t go amiss, although I’m not sure how much difference it would make. The media hostility is pretty much baked in.

Price of winning an election, I guess.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
But people are expecting to see all these changes within just 4-6 months under Labour - surely resolving the Schools, NHS, infrastructure, Prisons etc will take years despite Tax increases.
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They will, but, for now, the country is in no mood to give Labour time.

Labour came into office almost by default, support for the Tories collapsed and our electoral system gave Labour a stonking Parliamentary majority, not on a wave of enthusiasm, but on a wafer thin trickle of a "curse on all their houses" and "who else?".

Labour inherited a perfect storm, a crocked economy, a profoundly pessimistic nation, and a bitter right wing media, This would normally be ameliorated by the political capital an incoming government has, but Starmer has none.The wider electorate have never taken to him, less so now, and internally Starmer has burnt so many bridges to get here, that huge chunks of his party loathe him.
 
The perfect fumble said:
They will, but, for now, the country is in no mood to give Labour time.

Labour came into office almost by default, support for the Tories collapsed and our electoral system gave Labour a stonking Parliamentary majority, not on a wave of enthusiasm, but on a wafer thin trickle of a "curse on all their houses" and "who else?".

Labour inherited a perfect storm, a crocked economy, a profoundly pessimistic nation, and a bitter right wing media, This would normally be ameliorated by the political capital an incoming government has, but Starmer has none.The wider electorate have never taken to him, less so now, and internally Starmer has burnt so many bridges to get here, that huge chunks of his party loathe him.
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How would you predict the next election ?
 
BobKowalski said:
They do seem spectacularly tone deaf at times. I’m all for getting on with things but a bit of media management wouldn’t go amiss, although I’m not sure how much difference it would make. The media hostility is pretty much baked in.

Price of winning an election, I guess.
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Yeah I don't get it to be honest. Even things like the 22 billion black hole. I assume the primary purpose was to give them cover in the budget but it feels like they also expected it to be a Liam Byrne Post-It note type moment and establish the financial incompetence of the last government and establish their own. But the imagery is not as powerful and sticking a (largely abstract to most) number on it makes them a hostage to fortune in various ways.

Maybe as you say they've just decided that there's no point in putting too much effort in because the hostility is baked in but given how herculean the task to even start to turn things round will be, they need to treat any political capital they have or can gain as a precious thing.
 
The media is run by crooked, tax-dodging billionaires, many of whom are fascists or even worse, libertarians.

If Jesus Christ Himself was Labour PM, and worked a miracle each day, they would still want him out.

The problem is, the country is in a real mess, not a notional one, and there are no easy wins. Well, there was one, putting up the Minimum Wage, but a lot of people resent that.

Labour has already deported nearly 13,500 illegal immigrants and criminals. You'd never know that from the media.
 
The perfect fumble said:
My guess is Labour will win with a greatly reduced majority. The Tories are in the toilet and will be for some time, you can forget Reform, talk of them replacing the Tories is nothing more than a right wing fantasy.
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I think there’s a huge danger in this view similar to the UK will never vote to leave the EU.
The more Labour appear to move to protecting corporate interests and shitting on the people who they claim to represent, the more likely the prospect of Farage becomes.
All reform need to do is to ‘get the vote out’ like they did with Brexit. If they’re being bankrolled by Musk and spewing out propaganda via X, we could be at another ‘why not give him a go’ moment.
Of course Musk might also offer ‘incentives’ to vote for Farage, as he did for Trump.
Farage can easily appeal to the working class, many of whom will, somehow, think he’ll have their interests at heart, by pointing at Starmer and the Tories and saying what have they ever done for you? He can now do the same to the pensioners and, if he goes deregulation happy, and he will, the city will love him (if only the working class would understand that if the city approve of a leader, the working class will get shafted).
I’m not saying it’s likely but the danger is believing it can’t happen.
 
bluethrunthru said:
They have done nothing they are all the same ........ this week ...... oh wait......

www.bigissue.com

UK buys back 36,000 military homes after 'disastrous' privatisation

Military homes bought by Ministry of Defence in £6bn deal to end 'disastrous' privatisation sell-off that cost taxpayers £8bn.
www.bigissue.com www.bigissue.com

www.bigissue.com

Labour promises £1bn to tackle homelessness in shift towards prevention

The Labour government has said it will spend £1bn tackling homelessness in 2025 by shifting to prevention to end homeless crisis.
www.bigissue.com www.bigissue.com
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They’re adding some money to the homeless pot to bring it up to a £1bn. Still way short of what local authorities have to stump out however which is £2.5bn. Every thing helps but it’s not really a big tick in the box for Labour, it’s good though, especially as they are stipulating how it should be spent.

Good on buying back the housing. Tick in the box for Labour on this one.
 
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