The Labour Government

hammocity said:
It's general heating costs, my Dad lived in a Band C house, he worked all his life paid into the system, the last 30 years for Tameside Council, he had a private pension of £600 a month and a State Pension of about £700 a month when he passed in 2022 at the age of 89. His heating was on all day most months of the year. His bills had risen to £140 when he died, would probably be near £250 now, that would have been 19% of his income, the WFP would have helped, I don't understand why you constantly question my POV.
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Because he desperately needs to sell the withdrawal policy as not being cruel to certain pensioners.
 
west didsblue said:
Generally Tax band C or less will be smaller houses that are cheaper to heat so I’m not understanding the logic of using that as a measure. Someone loaded living in a small house needs it less than anyone.
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You know full well that pensioners living in houses sitting within those council tax bands are very, very likely to have lower incomes and be much more dependent on the WFA, even if they don’t qualify for pension credit.

Why argue to the contrary, just to defend a policy which has proved politically disastrous for the Labour government?

It’s a shit policy as it stands, and linking the WFA to a measure such as the Council Tax bands would at least have given the impression that a degree of thought had gone into it, which clearly can’t be said at present.
 
Brewster's millions said:
You know full well that pensioners living in houses sitting within those council tax bands are very, very likely to have lower incomes and be much more dependent on the WFA, even if they don’t qualify for pension credit.

Why argue to the contrary, just to defend a policy which has proved politically disastrous for the Labour government?

It’s a shit policy as it stands, and linking the WFA to a measure such as the Council Tax bands would at least have given the impression that a degree of thought had gone into it, which clearly can’t be said at present.
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agreed - has to be linked to income not CT Band. Over the road from me is a 94 year old widow - she lives on one of the "big" detached houses on the street with 5 bedrooms etc and her CT is much higher than ours (smaller 3 bed semi)- she survives on state pension and the idea that just because of her house she shouldn't get WFA is ludicrous.

My fear is even if Connie gets pension credit, even if she gets the WFA she still won't put her heating on. Just over a month ago she had a heating fault and one of her son's got someone to sort it - the problem was related to a lack of use.
 
Brewster's millions said:
You know full well that pensioners living in houses sitting within those council tax bands are very, very likely to have lower incomes and be much more dependent on the WFA, even if they don’t qualify for pension credit.

Why argue to the contrary, just to defend a policy which has proved politically disastrous for the Labour government?

It’s a shit policy as it stands, and linking the WFA to a measure such as the Council Tax bands would at least have given the impression that a degree of thought had gone into it, which clearly can’t be said at present.
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I’m not defending the current system. I’ve already said it was implemented in a ham fisted manner. Linking it to CT band will lead to all sorts of anomalies. It needs to be linked to income with a line drawn in a different place than the current system. Makes much more sense than arbitrarily linking it to a measure that might be just a general indication of wealth and affordability rather than something that would be unarguable.
 
west didsblue said:
I’m not defending the current system. I’ve already said it was implemented in a ham fisted manner. Linking it to CT band will lead to all sorts of anomalies. It needs to be linked to income with a line drawn in a different place than the current system. Makes much more sense than arbitrarily linking it to a measure that might be just a general indication of wealth and affordability rather than something that would be unarguable.
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I mean they want older people to downsize releasing larger houses for families so maybe all the rich pensioners buy terraced houses in lower council tax bands they would get WFA!
 
bluethrunthru said:
agreed - has to be linked to income not CT Band. Over the road from me is a 94 year old widow - she lives on one of the "big" detached houses on the street with 5 bedrooms etc and her CT is much higher than ours (smaller 3 bed semi)- she survives on state pension and the idea that just because of her house she shouldn't get WFA is ludicrous.

My fear is even if Connie gets pension credit, even if she gets the WFA she still won't put her heating on. Just over a month ago she had a heating fault and one of her son's got someone to sort it - the problem was related to a lack of use.
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Have I got this right? Connie is living in an asset worth half a million pounds or more in a 5-bedroom house during a housing crisis, and is cold, rather than downsize to a nice warm flat in sheltered accommodation with lots of social activity going on. I know the attachment that people have to their family home - mother-in-law moved after she was widowed to a "retirement village" and bemoaned that she only had a bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom - "but that's all you ever used in your old house". Connie is actually lucky that she can still cope with living in a large house - one fall, and she may no longer have the choice.

Sorry if it sounds blunt, but this is grim reality for many as they get older.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
agreed - has to be linked to income not CT Band. Over the road from me is a 94 year old widow - she lives on one of the "big" detached houses on the street with 5 bedrooms etc and her CT is much higher than ours (smaller 3 bed semi)- she survives on state pension and the idea that just because of her house she shouldn't get WFA is ludicrous.

My fear is even if Connie gets pension credit, even if she gets the WFA she still won't put her heating on. Just over a month ago she had a heating fault and one of her son's got someone to sort it - the problem was related to a lack of use.
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Cool story bro
 
Vic said:
Have I got this right? Connie is living in an asset worth half a million pounds or more in a 5-bedroom house during a housing crisis, and is cold, rather than downsize to a nice warm flat in sheltered accommodation with lots of social activity going on. I know the attachment people have to their family home - mother-in-law moved after she was widowed to a "retirment village" and bemoaned that she only had a bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom - "but that's all you ever used in your old house". Connie is actually lucky that she can still cope with living in a large house - one fall, and she may no longer have the choice.

Sorry if it sounds blunt, but this is grim reality for many as they get older.
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More or less right - she is stubborn according to the one of her sons I am friends with ( his daughter is best mates with mine ) so yeah its a real case of asset rich income poor but I think its a mindset with some of them tbh - the family all come to the old family home and according to Jeff (the son) she says no-one will come if she moves.

The thing is there is a new McCarthy and Stone block going up in town right now which would be perfect but ......
 
Vic said:
Have I got this right? Connie is living in an asset worth half a million pounds or more in a 5-bedroom house during a housing crisis, and is cold, rather than downsize to a nice warm flat in sheltered accommodation with lots of social activity going on. I know the attachment people have to their family home - mother-in-law moved after she was widowed to a "retirment village" and bemoaned that she only had a bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom - "but that's all you ever used in your old house". Connie is actually lucky that she can still cope with living in a large house - one fall, and she may no longer have the choice.

Sorry if it sounds blunt, but this is grim reality for many as they get older.
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“asking for it” eh Vic?

Blunt? Nah mate, you’re just desperately scrambling for one thread to another trying to defend the indefensible.
 
Vic said:
Have I got this right? Connie is living in an asset worth half a million pounds or more in a 5-bedroom house during a housing crisis, and is cold, rather than downsize to a nice warm flat in sheltered accommodation with lots of social activity going on. I know the attachment people have to their family home - mother-in-law moved after she was widowed to a "retirment village" and bemoaned that she only had a bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom - "but that's all you ever used in your old house". Connie is actually lucky that she can still cope with living in a large house - one fall, and she may no longer have the choice.

Sorry if it sounds blunt, but this is grim reality for many as they get older.
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I think it is very much an emotional attachment for many, and to be honest there is not alot anyone can do about it, even if they wanted to.
 
bluethrunthru said:
agreed - has to be linked to income not CT Band. Over the road from me is a 94 year old widow - she lives on one of the "big" detached houses on the street with 5 bedrooms etc and her CT is much higher than ours (smaller 3 bed semi)- she survives on state pension and the idea that just because of her house she shouldn't get WFA is ludicrous.

My fear is even if Connie gets pension credit, even if she gets the WFA she still won't put her heating on. Just over a month ago she had a heating fault and one of her son's got someone to sort it - the problem was related to a lack of use.
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She can heat the rooms she uses or maybe take in some female lodgers working in health and social care.

My gran sold her 3 bed semi and then lived in a council 1 bed bungalow for the last 10-15 years of her life. Didn't leave much in way of inheritance but doubt she would have lived to 87 whilst navigating a victorian stairwell.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
You okay hun?
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Of course he isn’t. He keeps voting for things that don’t do what he thought.

We’re in the transitional phase where he’s gearing up to vote Reform at the next election, before years of posts saying it isn’t what he voted for.

Perhaps thinking more positively, rather than voting to stop everything might get us further, but I’m not sure we’re in the era for voting for positive things.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Of course he isn’t. He keeps voting for things that don’t do what he thought.

We’re in the transitional phase where he’s gearing up to vote Reform at the next election, before years of posts saying it isn’t what he voted for.

Perhaps thinking more positively, rather than voting to stop everything might get us further, but I’m not sure we’re in the era for voting for positive things.
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I'm not sure politics is the problem for some people. If someone sets out looking for misery they are bound to find it.

Might want to take some advice from Michael Jackson and start with the man in the mirror.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
I'm not sure politics is the problem for some people. If someone sets out looking for misery they are bound to find it.

Might want to take some advice from Michael Jackson and start with the man in the mirror.
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It’s not just him, to be fair, it’s social media as a whole that sees simplistic, destructive answers as the quick win to all society’s ills.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
It’s not just him, to be fair, it’s social media as a whole that sees simplistic, destructive answers as the quick win to all society’s ills.
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Pretty much. It's like walking into speakers' corner and expecting a rational and coherent solution to anything.

Once saw a black bloke dressed in ceremonial police uniform proposing to deport all white people in faraway lands back to Europe.

Probably the sanest thing thing there that day.

A minority of people on social media are willingly to accept that there are trade-offs. Wealthy pensioners, farmers, they might be party losing out in a trade-off to put more money towards helping young families or improving teenage cancer outcomes or reducing waiting lists.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Pretty much. It's like walking into speakers' corner and expecting a rational and coherent solution to anything.

Once saw a black bloke dressed in ceremonial police uniform proposing to deport all white people in faraway lands back to Europe.

Probably the sanest thing thing there that day.

A minority of people on social media are willingly to accept that there are trade-offs. Wealthy pensioners, farmers, they might be party losing out in a trade-off to put more money towards helping young families or improving teenage cancer outcomes or reducing waiting lists.
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I’d give you a like, but for including the story about the bloke dressed in police uniform, you’re getting a “cool story bro” in order for any rhetoric to be diminished.
 
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