The Labour Party

[blueinsa]

From Rascals perspective 90% of politicians are neo liberal.

99.99% I would wager.

 

[Fame Monster]

You think so? It seems to me the sun/times still weighs a great deal.

He/his family still has far more power than he should have imo but I think the internet has reduced his influence. Especially since both The Sun and Times are behind a paywall so his influence is far less than a lot of other publications/platforms.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

99.99% I would wager.

 

[Saddleworth2]

He/his family still has far more power than he should have imo but I think the internet has reduced his influence. Especially since both The Sun and Times are behind a paywall so his influence is far less than a lot of other publications/platforms.

He still seems very close to whoever holds power. Maybe his successor will wield less influence. Hope that’s the case.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'd like a circular argument in which I just keep repeating my own cherished views with no intention of actually debating anything. Is this the best place to kick off now the brexit thread has gone?

 

[Rascal]

Blair wasn’t neoliberal.

Why do you keep saying this.

He was , why do you keep denying it

 

[Ban-jani]

He was , why do you keep denying it

Neoliberalism isn’t mass public spending and it is austerity measures.

Blair is the former and not the latter. He engaged in some privatisation but overall he arguably overspent in public services, increasing the deficit whilst in the middle of an economic boom.

His detractors criticise him for investing too much in public services.

You’re so lost at sea to the left, you cannot see the shore of the centre.

 

[Rascal]

If you gave the people running the SDP control over Labour they’d win a landslide.

Blue Labour need to make a return to see them get anywhere.

Blue Labour was only ever a theory in Glasmans head, its most prominent supporter is Embery, leader of the FBU, who BTW is a leaver and is no Socialist.

The Blair years ruined the Labour party and turned it away from a working class Socialist party into a party that supported and continued the Thatcherite neo-liberal reforms, they even stuck to the Tory spending plans for the first 2 years in power, refused to repeal anti TU laws and further deregulated the City, all hallmarks of neo liberalism. They introduced further privatisation in the NHS, and refused to renationalise any of the industries sold off for pennies under Thatcher.


The SDP have some ideas that fit comfortably with me, communitarianism is clever and I could support that, I would prefer them to Starmer's Labour party but unless PR is introduced they will remain on the fringe and it does not suit the Tories to bring in PR. Plus they are pro-Brexit which would appeal to the red wall and a lot of Labour leavers, the problem is they have no presence and the fragmentation of the left will likely lead to a number of smaller parties such as Galloways Workers Party vying for the same votes. The left will cancel each other out under FTP.

Of course there is a difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy allows for capitalism to co-exist within its structures whilst Democratic Socialism advocates the socialised owning of the means of production and I lean towards Democratic Socialism rather than Social Democracy although there is a cultural cross over between the two in certain areas. I am not sure the SDP would appeal to many Democratic Socialists because of its stance on capitalism and whilst the Nordic model of Social Democracy has much to be admired they didn't go through the huge reconstruction of the state enabled by Thatcherism.

 

[Metal Biker]

Blue Labour was only ever a theory in Glasmans head, its most prominent supporter is Embery, leader of the FBU, who BTW is a leaver and is no Socialist.

The Blair years ruined the Labour party and turned it away from a working class Socialist party into a party that supported and continued the Thatcherite neo-liberal reforms, they even stuck to the Tory spending plans for the first 2 years in power, refused to repeal anti TU laws and further deregulated the City, all hallmarks of neo liberalism. They introduced further privatisation in the NHS, and refused to renationalise any of the industries sold off for pennies under Thatcher.


The SDP have some ideas that fit comfortably with me, communitarianism is clever and I could support that, I would prefer them to Starmer's Labour party but unless PR is introduced they will remain on the fringe and it does not suit the Tories to bring in PR. Plus they are pro-Brexit which would appeal to the red wall and a lot of Labour leavers, the problem is they have no presence and the fragmentation of the left will likely lead to a number of smaller parties such as Galloways Workers Party vying for the same votes. The left will cancel each other out under FTP.

Of course there is a difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy allows for capitalism to co-exist within its structures whilst Democratic Socialism advocates the socialised owning of the means of production and I lean towards Democratic Socialism rather than Social Democracy although there is a cultural cross over between the two in certain areas. I am not sure the SDP would appeal to many Democratic Socialists because of its stance on capitalism and whilst the Nordic model of Social Democracy has much to be admired they didn't go through the huge reconstruction of the state enabled by Thatcherism.

New Labour might have 'ruined' the perception of Labour amongst socialists as a "socialist ideological party", but it did great wonders for the majority of British people across all backgrounds and circumstances, which ideally is what we all want to see, right?

If New Labour helped more people than socialist Labour did, where is the problem?

 

[Ban-jani]

Blue Labour was only ever a theory in Glasmans head, its most prominent supporter is Embery, leader of the FBU, who BTW is a leaver and is no Socialist.

The Blair years ruined the Labour party and turned it away from a working class Socialist party into a party that supported and continued the Thatcherite neo-liberal reforms, they even stuck to the Tory spending plans for the first 2 years in power, refused to repeal anti TU laws and further deregulated the City, all hallmarks of neo liberalism. They introduced further privatisation in the NHS, and refused to renationalise any of the industries sold off for pennies under Thatcher.


The SDP have some ideas that fit comfortably with me, communitarianism is clever and I could support that, I would prefer them to Starmer's Labour party but unless PR is introduced they will remain on the fringe and it does not suit the Tories to bring in PR. Plus they are pro-Brexit which would appeal to the red wall and a lot of Labour leavers, the problem is they have no presence and the fragmentation of the left will likely lead to a number of smaller parties such as Galloways Workers Party vying for the same votes. The left will cancel each other out under FTP.

Of course there is a difference between Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy allows for capitalism to co-exist within its structures whilst Democratic Socialism advocates the socialised owning of the means of production and I lean towards Democratic Socialism rather than Social Democracy although there is a cultural cross over between the two in certain areas. I am not sure the SDP would appeal to many Democratic Socialists because of its stance on capitalism and whilst the Nordic model of Social Democracy has much to be admired they didn't go through the huge reconstruction of the state enabled by Thatcherism.

Latter two paragraphs I completely agree with, the former two I do not agree.

They’ll never get in but if they led the Labour Party and took it in that direction, they would.