The Sack Mancini because of CL failure at City undermined

[Blue Heaven]

One big difference between City & United over recent European seasons is a good one for us:

United are getting regularly beaten at home over recent years, whereas for all the "humiliations" and "footballing lessons" that the likes of Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax, etc have supposedly handed-out to us, no-one has actually managed to win at the Etihad.

Looking at 2 of those teams; Madrid won at OT this season; Ajax won at OT last season.

And who have Utd actually managed to beat in the last 2 Champions Leagues ? Otelul Galati, Braga, Galatasaray and CFR Cluj.
Otelul Galati and CFR Cluj ? While we're playing Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax ?
Surely someone's having a laugh.

All that Utd's record suggests is that if they play an easy team, they win - when they play an average team, they sometimes win - and when they play someone good, they lose. Not really that dissimilar from City, except we keep playing good teams ?

Yet we're told that Utd are proudly continuing the glorious traditoins of the Busby Babes, while we are a laughing stock in Europe ... and Utd will doubtless start as one of the favourites to win the whole thing each year.

Just saying that I don't think we're quite as far behind Utd in our European results as some people are suggesting ?

Don't really understand the constant comparison to Utd ? If we both crash out of the groups next year, that's going to be fine as they crashed out as well.

And who is to say that we would have finished 1st or 2nd in any other groups the last two years ? Every CL game besides the 2 games vs Villarreal we have been pretty much outplayed and out-coached.

I'm surprised it's taken five pages for people to cotton on to just how dumb the argument being put forward in this thread is. It goes like this ... it's ok that Mancini isn't good enough to manage in European competition because neither is Slur Alex ... such a facile argument you'd think it was written by a rag on the wind up!

What makes you think it wasn't?!

 

[AustinBlue]

its hard for us to argue about the toughness of our group because we couldnt beat ajax either

Ajax were champions of Holland. They weren't a lucky-to-be-in-the-comp-relegation-fodder side like Villarreal were. They had some very good midfielders.

Ajax against us featured only 4 players from the title-winning team of last season. Lots of youngsters, though.

I could argue convincingly that Ajax didn't have a single player that could get into our squad. Yet they played us off the pitch in Holland, and easily matched us in Manchester. We had as good a squad as any of our opponents over the past two years, with the possible exception of Real Madrid. It isn't just that we didn't progress, we never looked convincing. We never seemed to have our players ready or our tactics right in any of the games. United has played some crap in Europe, but their players were ready yesterday, and they had their tactics right. United should have won. We were never in position that we should have won.

 

[Marvin]

One big difference between City & United over recent European seasons is a good one for us:

United are getting regularly beaten at home over recent years, whereas for all the "humiliations" and "footballing lessons" that the likes of Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax, etc have supposedly handed-out to us, no-one has actually managed to win at the Etihad.

Looking at 2 of those teams; Madrid won at OT this season; Ajax won at OT last season.

And who have Utd actually managed to beat in the last 2 Champions Leagues ? Otelul Galati, Braga, Galatasaray and CFR Cluj.
Otelul Galati and CFR Cluj ? While we're playing Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax ?
Surely someone's having a laugh.

All that Utd's record suggests is that if they play an easy team, they win - when they play an average team, they sometimes win - and when they play someone good, they lose. Not really that dissimilar from City, except we keep playing good teams ?

Yet we're told that Utd are proudly continuing the glorious traditoins of the Busby Babes, while we are a laughing stock in Europe ... and Utd will doubtless start as one of the favourites to win the whole thing each year.

Just saying that I don't think we're quite as far behind Utd in our European results as some people are suggesting ?

Don't really understand the constant comparison to Utd ? If we both crash out of the groups next year, that's going to be fine as they crashed out as well.

And who is to say that we would have finished 1st or 2nd in any other groups the last two years ? Every CL game besides the 2 games vs Villarreal we have been pretty much outplayed and out-coached.

I'm surprised it's taken five pages for people to cotton on to just how dumb the argument being put forward in this thread is. It goes like this ... it's ok that Mancini isn't good enough to manage in European competition because neither is Slur Alex ... such a facile argument you'd think it was written by a rag on the wind up!

Yet Ferguson has won the the Champions League!

I think it must be you who is on the wind up. You are so entrenched in your hole that you just wont come out

Ferguson and Mourinho have struggled at man utd and Chelsea at different times in the Champions League, so doesn't that demonstrate that Mancini should also be allowed some latitude?

 

[Blue Heaven]

Ajax were champions of Holland. They weren't a lucky-to-be-in-the-comp-relegation-fodder side like Villarreal were. They had some very good midfielders.

Ajax against us featured only 4 players from the title-winning team of last season. Lots of youngsters, though.

I could argue convincingly that Ajax didn't have a single player that could get into our squad. Yet they played us off the pitch in Holland, and easily matched us in Manchester. We had as good a squad as any of our opponents over the past two years, with the possible exception of Real Madrid. It isn't just that we didn't progress, we never looked convincing. We never seemed to have our players ready or our tactics right in any of the games. United has played some crap in Europe, but their players were ready yesterday, and they had their tactics right. United should have won. We were never in position that we should have won.

Eriksen would feature regularly for us, but that's it. I was supremely annoyed that Ajax played us off the pitch in both fixtures, as I had to listen to my smug Ajax fan friend pontificate to me about how "money does not buy tradition nor create club culture..."<br /><br />-- Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:33 pm --<br /><br />

Don't really understand the constant comparison to Utd ? If we both crash out of the groups next year, that's going to be fine as they crashed out as well.

And who is to say that we would have finished 1st or 2nd in any other groups the last two years ? Every CL game besides the 2 games vs Villarreal we have been pretty much outplayed and out-coached.

I'm surprised it's taken five pages for people to cotton on to just how dumb the argument being put forward in this thread is. It goes like this ... it's ok that Mancini isn't good enough to manage in European competition because neither is Slur Alex ... such a facile argument you'd think it was written by a rag on the wind up!

Yet Ferguson has won the the Champions League!

I think it must be you who is on the wind up. You are so entrenched in your hole that you just wont come out

Ferguson and Mourinho have struggled at man utd and Chelsea at different times in the Champions League, so doesn't that demonstrate that Mancini should also be allowed some latitude?

Mancini is a very, very good manager. However, SAF and Mou, despicable though their behaviour is, are much better managers.

Bobby is also in a situation at City where CL revenue is absolutely essential to keeping the Project on track.

 

[mammutly]

One big difference between City & United over recent European seasons is a good one for us:

United are getting regularly beaten at home over recent years, whereas for all the "humiliations" and "footballing lessons" that the likes of Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax, etc have supposedly handed-out to us, no-one has actually managed to win at the Etihad.

Looking at 2 of those teams; Madrid won at OT this season; Ajax won at OT last season.

And who have Utd actually managed to beat in the last 2 Champions Leagues ? Otelul Galati, Braga, Galatasaray and CFR Cluj.
Otelul Galati and CFR Cluj ? While we're playing Dortmund, Madrid, Napoli, Bayern, Ajax ?
Surely someone's having a laugh.

All that Utd's record suggests is that if they play an easy team, they win - when they play an average team, they sometimes win - and when they play someone good, they lose. Not really that dissimilar from City, except we keep playing good teams ?

Yet we're told that Utd are proudly continuing the glorious traditoins of the Busby Babes, while we are a laughing stock in Europe ... and Utd will doubtless start as one of the favourites to win the whole thing each year.

Just saying that I don't think we're quite as far behind Utd in our European results as some people are suggesting ?

Don't really understand the constant comparison to Utd ? If we both crash out of the groups next year, that's going to be fine as they crashed out as well.

And who is to say that we would have finished 1st or 2nd in any other groups the last two years ? Every CL game besides the 2 games vs Villarreal we have been pretty much outplayed and out-coached.

I'm surprised it's taken five pages for people to cotton on to just how dumb the argument being put forward in this thread is. It goes like this ... it's ok that Mancini isn't good enough to manage in European competition because neither is Slur Alex ... such a facile argument you'd think it was written by a rag on the wind up!

The comparison also relates to currently the best two teams in English football - by some margin.The point the OP is making is that a knockout competition cannot be a reliable yardstick by which to judge a manager.

Do you think de Matteo is a better manager than both Mancini and Ferguson?

 

[Anonymous]

Yet Ferguson has won the the Champions League!

Twice in two decades . Think I'd prefer a better return on my money if I were our owners.

I think it must be you who is on the wind up. You are so entrenched in your hole that you just wont come out

I'm entrenched in the position that Mancini isn't good enough for where City aspire to be. Your problem with that isn't my problem tbh.

Ferguson and Mourinho have struggled at man utd and Chelsea at different times in the Champions League, so doesn't that demonstrate that Mancini should also be allowed some latitude?

No ... because Mancini has shown that he's far less capable than even the guy who has managed only two wins in 20 years whilst supposedly having several of the best teams in europe over that period of time.

It was a stupid stupid OP , and what I find fascinating is that you whine like a broken ceiling fan about people discussing the Italian, yet like all the other broken ceiling fans seem to want to talk about little else. I've said it before, its look like insecurity from where I'm sitting.

 

[waspish]

Ask your self why haven't we been that good in Europe this season?

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

What it means is that you can't write off a manager on the basis of 2 seasons failure in the Champions League, otherwise you'd have to write Ferguson off as well....and that's plainly stupid

Considering the past three seasons in eruope what is the evidence that there will be any significant improvement next year? And don't go on about experience, Malaga, Spurs, Napoli, PSG all have proved this is a bullshit excuse.<br /><br />-- Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:53 pm --<br /><br />

Ask your self why haven't we been that good in Europe this season?

Mancini not being good enough tactically
Lack of Width
Lack of pace and quality in midfield

 

[Anonymous]

Do you think de Matteo is a better manager than both Mancini and Ferguson?

Oh my years ... hasn't dawned on any of you that the strawmen you build to try and defend Mancini ultimately undermine your own arguments. Anyway I'm off to the pub ... I'll leave you to sit and tell people on the internet to "get behind the manager FFS" ... :)

 

[nijinskybell]

Yet Ferguson has won the the Champions League!

Twice in two decades . Think I'd prefer a better return on my money if I were our owners.

I think it must be you who is on the wind up. You are so entrenched in your hole that you just wont come out

I'm entrenched in the position that Mancini isn't good enough for where City aspire to be. Your problem with that isn't my problem tbh.

Ferguson and Mourinho have struggled at man utd and Chelsea at different times in the Champions League, so doesn't that demonstrate that Mancini should also be allowed some latitude?

No ... because Mancini has shown that he's far less capable than even the guy who has managed only two wins in 20 years whilst supposedly having several of the best teams in europe over that period of time.

It was a stupid stupid OP , and what I find fascinating is that you whine like a broken ceiling fan about people discussing the Italian, yet like all the other broken ceiling fans seem to want to talk about little else. I've said it before, its look like insecurity from where I'm sitting.

Billy, why do you call Manicini 'The Italian'? It comes across as a derogatory (almost racist) term when you use it in this way.