Today's shooting in America thread

[Slipper One]

Coming up to 400 pages and 5 and a half years this thread and fuck all has changed with our Dirty Harry cousins across the pond. All rather depressing really.

There probably hasn't been anything new discussed here or over there on this subject for a long long time.

The sad thing is Hiltz, that you'll be able to come back in another 5 1/2 years and very little will have changed 'across the pond'.........in fact, I believe it will be far worse as the country deteriorates.

It is depressing and hard to understand how young kids, their kids, not kids from some far off land, can die like this and the country that stands up tallest in the world to represent true freedom and democracy, continues to do nothing about it.

Many make the mistake of viewing America through the eyes of other first world, free, democratic countries. It's a selfish, paranoid and insecure land where so many people know little about issues outside of their state, let alone the world. As with Putin spewing out his propaganda to brain wash the population, the US do the same nationalist 'Land Of The Free!!' (cue Jim Jefferies) propaganda.

They simply don't think like you.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Haven’t met a single gunowner yet who thinks the problem is his fault. That’s why we’re fucked.

We don’t need to “magic away” 350 mm guns. Let’s just start somewhere simple. Let’s start with yours.

If you can’t quit them voluntarily, why should we expect anyone else to?

It’s like a smoker telling me smoking’s bad. Cool, so quit smoking then.

I see the whole “stones and glasshouses” aspect to the issue, but it would be silly to believe any of the negative reasons why I own guns would have disappeared were I to simply volunteer to give away my guns.

Indeed, unlike your smoking analogy, I’m not saying all guns are bad, or that all gun owners are. What I am saying is that there is a world of space between proliferation and confiscation, and if we could start dealing with the immediate issues, people might realize they not only do not feel less free, but actually enjoy feeling more free!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I fear you are correct, and that there is no meaningful solution to this problem, but the real problem for you as a society is that the senseless killing is going to get progressively worse to the point where all the things that make America such a great place to live will diminish to a point of insignificance. I can’t see any other pathway.

And if 2A is truly immutable, then I can see no possible long term outcome, if that tragic path is traveled, other than some States eventually seceding from the Union. Some people, in some States (on each coast) will eventually say ‘enough is enough’.

I must confess I find the evangelical and slavish adherence to 2A to be nothing short of bizarre. Its wording is plainly anachronistic and incongruous with modern legislature. It expressly mentions regulation and yet its fiercest acolytes are inimical to any associated meaningful regulation. It seems an utterly absurd thing to build your belief system around, but as you say it’s not going anywhere, and any moves to do so would be met with widespread and violent civil disobedience.

Sadly I think it will eventually be the downfall of US society, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it, other than watch in horror.

I wish I could find something to disagree with in there. However, in the race to the bottom, unfettered capitalism might run gun proliferation close…to the point where they meet to create the end game.

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

Forgive me for thinking the stopping power of AR15 makes the slightest difference to the head of an innocent schoolchild in comparison to a pistol.

One murdered school kid is one too many.

You can offer the AR stat, but a reload of a pistol is momentary, as is the inference that a murderer needs a bigger gun for penetration, to remove obstacles in their path.

It's bollocks.

It's a fudge. Yesterday's shooter also had a pistol holstered, it wasn't for decoration.

Nuclear bombs also come in different payloads, but they all still kill everything in its direct path.

I agree these AR15s are abhorrent, but it's a distraction and argument helpful to those who only want guns full stop.

Ahem....
This is the United States you're talking about!
Where FreeDUMB is more important than saving lives!

What you're suggesting would result in the taking away of property and as we all know, property is more important than lives.

Many gun owners have clearly stated that the value of their firearm is worth more than the life of law enforcement officer.

Just take a look at this:



If someone is willing to murder a civil servant who shows up to confiscate banned items, lives are definitely worth less thanks to FreeDUMB!

There's a reason most Americans with common sense want to flee to Canada or somewhere else..

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

And your a woke

What does that even mean? Even though I provided the spelling you still couldn't get it correct in your reply.

Why don't you go and work out the percentages of gun attacks by gender of the perpetrator.

Four attacks over five years in a sea of hundreds of mass shootings proves it's an irrelevant point.

Why are non trans people far more likely to commit gun attacks if there is a violent trans idealogy?

You either a very sad troll or a very sick and bigoted person.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

And there’s seemingly no appetite to stop it from happening.

There actually is a MAJORITY interest in changing our current trajectory, but in this Republic of 50 separate and distinct “country states,” it’s hard to explain how difficult it is to enact that change.

2A is considered sacred. That means even the states cannot enact legislation. I live in IL, which was last in the nation to allow gun ownership, and I also live in the IL county that was taken to SCOTUS over their gun prohibition!

Yes, CHICAGO…gun crime capital of the US…was the last place in the country to LEGALLY ALLOW GUN OWNERSHIP IN THE CITY!

If that doesn’t make you realize that gun CRIME doesn’t care about 2A or local laws, nothing will!

It would be an interesting NATIONAL ballot measure to see if America would like to repeal 2A. The problem would be that because 2A is enshrined in the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution details how those Rights can be changed, a NATIONAL VOTE would be meaningless!

Those of you who have been here already know that America is NOT the clear blue skies and moneyed class you see from Hollywood, unless you’re watching Winter’s Bone, Justified, or Deliverance!

Britain, much as from the air it looks like a “green and pleasant land” pock marked by minor urban sprawl coupled with village sprawl beyond, is a fairly homogenous population/society. It is TINY by comparison to the US. You usually see common ground in discussion of British issues, although issues like Brexit do highlight regional differences.

America is like 50 Britains!!!

I have a friend who has a phrase which I apply to some of the problems I see in America…it is beyond human scale!

By that, he means that people just can’t wrap their heads around the problem, and even if they could, they couldn’t cobble together the collective will (and pain) needed to both address and correct the issue…so why worry about it?! Get on with your life, addressing the issues you can affect, understanding where your energy is better utilized.

It might be fatalistic to feel this way, but it helps one get through the nightly recap of gun deaths!

 

[domalino]

Forgive me for thinking the stopping power of AR15 makes the slightest difference to the head of an innocent schoolchild in comparison to a pistol.

One murdered school kid is one too many.

You can offer the AR stat, but a reload of a pistol is momentary, as is the inference that a murderer needs a bigger gun for penetration, to remove obstacles in their path.

It's bollocks.

It's a fudge. Yesterday's shooter also had a pistol holstered, it wasn't for decoration.

Nuclear bombs also come in different payloads, but they all still kill everything in its direct path.

I agree these AR15s are abhorrent, but it's a distraction and argument helpful to those who only want guns full stop.

No offence Tolmie but you're missing the wood for the trees.

AR15s have been responsible for all of the worst mass shootings in American history. It's a proven fact that while they didn't stop entirely, the frequency and number of casualties in mass shootings dropped massively under the assault rifle ban of the 90's.

They have been banned before and they can be banned again.


No one is getting rid of all guns in America, and plenty of countries that allow people to have guns don't have the mass shooting problems of the US so there's no point talking about getting rid of all guns.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Ahem....
This is the United States you're talking about!
Where FreeDUMB is more important than saving lives!

What you're suggesting would result in the taking away of property and as we all know, property is more important than lives.

Many gun owners have clearly stated that the value of their firearm is worth more than the life of law enforcement officer.

Just take a look at this:

If someone is willing to murder a civil servant who shows up to confiscate banned items, lives are definitely worth less thanks to FreeDUMB!

There's a reason most Americans with common sense want to flee to Canada or somewhere else..

No law enforcement, no civil servant. It was a Repo Man…a tow truck driver who works for the company who actually OWNS the Infiniti Q50 (dealership or finance company).

You can be assured, especially in Miami-Dade, that if it had been 3 shots fired at las enforcement, the shooters would be dead right now! Just sayin’

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

 

[frothy]

What does that even mean? Even though I provided the spelling you still couldn't get it correct in your reply.

Why don't you go and work out the percentages of gun attacks by gender of the perpetrator.

Four attacks over five years in a sea of hundreds of mass shootings proves it's an irrelevant point.

Why are non trans people far more likely to commit gun attacks if there is a violent trans idealogy?

You either a very sad troll or a very sick and bigoted person.

You are a prick