UEFA Independent Inquiry

Dirty Harry said:
I’d say “getting in successfully” may be a different figure to “tickets presented/found in possession of”, plus, doesn’t account for the ticketless jibbers either, so I’ll wait for something more concrete on that before I go crowing if I was them (oh imagine that !).

This did make me laugh though :-
“ I’ve read a number of stories of absolutely horrific experiences leaving the stadium as well – crimes being committed, muggings taking place. Nobody should experience what our fans experienced both before or after the match.”

Par for the course at Anfield back in the day, can’t imagine that much has changed, they should be more than desensitised to that type of thing by now anyway.
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Such delicate flowers would never brick the coach of an opponent.
 
Brightwell Bros. said:
Anyone who has worked in festivals and events will tell you it's a huge undertaking to get the tickets out into the world. There'd be mountains more evidence than the same two or three screenshots doing the rounds.
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That's only true if you are doing things legitimately. Anyone who has worked in law enforcement will tell you that bulk producing and selling illicit goods is not the same undertaking.

As for evidence of the scale of fake tickets ? Where are you going to get that ? Anyone with a fake ticket won't come forward because they'd be asked where they got it which leads into areas they won't want to be involved in.

So, applying the specific number of 40k, I'd agree with you. But the "industrial scale" quote may well be true.
 
Brightwell Bros. said:
The post I was responding to claimed it was a reasonable assumption. I'm pointing out that handwaving "organized crime" for 40k fake tickets doesn't just require printing but vast distribution via post or collection. Dozens and hundreds of people advertising, posting, selling. It's not reasonable. Even if you believe the scousers are 100% to blame, unfairly imo, if you believe there were 40k fakes doing the rounds then you'll believe anything. Anyone who has worked in festivals and events will tell you it's a huge undertaking to get the tickets out into the world. There'd be mountains more evidence than the same two or three screenshots doing the rounds.
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Yeah, I'm not buying into the 40k fakes idea to be perfectly honest. But I've no doubt there were more than enough doing the rounds to cause significant issues in terns of getting in and from a safety perspective.

And I agree that it's not 100% on Liverpool fans to shoulder the blame but if part of what transpired does indeed come down to forged tickets then - even if only for the sake of their own fans buying bona fide tickets - the Liverpool fans responsible and the club should own it and put steps in place to make sure it doesn't happen again, or at least doesn't happen on the same scale again. Going with digital tickets rather than paper tickets would be a good start.
 
Newman Noggs said:
That's only true if you are doing things legitimately. Anyone who has worked in law enforcement will tell you that bulk producing and selling illicit goods is not the same undertaking.

As for evidence of the scale of fake tickets ? Where are you going to get that ? Anyone with a fake ticket won't come forward because they'd be asked where they got it which leads into areas they won't want to be involved in.

So, applying the specific number of 40k, I'd agree with you. But the "industrial scale" quote may well be true.
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I'd say anything that runs into several thousand can legitimately be classed as "industrial scale". It doesn't have to be as many as 40,000
 
I don't buy the UEFA/French line of 30k+ turning up without tickets or with fakes. The aerial shots of the ground didn't show 30k people milling around outside.
 
M18CTID said:
Yeah, I'm not buying into the 40k fakes idea to be perfectly honest. But I've no doubt there were more than enough doing the rounds to cause significant issues in terns of getting in and from a safety perspective.

And I agree that it's not 100% on Liverpool fans to shoulder the blame but if part of what transpired does indeed come down to forged tickets then - even if only for the sake of their own fans buying bona fide tickets - the Liverpool fans responsible and the club should own it and put steps in place to make sure it doesn't happen again, or at least doesn't happen on the same scale again. Going with digital tickets rather than paper tickets would be a good start.
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Yeah, like I say, even if you believe that there were a few thousand doing the rounds and this is the key thing to focus on, as I think you do, we need to be sensible. From there I'd be interested in what the usual number would be. But totally agree that these will be totally digital in the future, with active, changing QR codes. Which will mean City moved on that this season at the right time, given the grumbles at the start. As I said upthread, I think the report will indicate these were an issue, and Liverpool will need to do more in future, but I'll be interested to see if that really was the main problem. I doubt it, tbh, but happy to be proven wrong.

I do think that even if that is true, the report will also mention locals, underpaid security sneaking mates in, the routes to the stadium/gates being an issue, particularly with that underpass, the striking metro, possibly some faulty ticket readers, security becoming overwhelmed far too quickly, and French police being far too heavy handed (which tallies with other football fans and protestors I have known who live in France). We might see official guidance meaning you have to travel to finals through official club travel, with City last year being a model (accepting that was in a pandemic). Be nice if the clubs and UEFA ran those at a discount. I think anyone who has read all the reports with an open mind and not an intense hatred of Liverpool would accept that these could have played a part, and we will know more once the report is complete.

But in general I'm just glad no one was seriously injured or killed. I hope football rivalry hasn't numbed any City fans to the point we can't all agree on that.
 
wolfie1988 said:
I don't buy the UEFA/French line of 30k+ turning up without tickets or with fakes. The aerial shots of the ground didn't show 30k people milling around outside.
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I've not seen the aerial shots but have you considered a fair number may have already been inside?

30k+ sounds like a lot of people chancing their arm and I agree that it's probably on the high side, but remember there were estimates of between 50k and 150k Liverpool fans being in Paris. Let's take that middle figure and call it 100,000. 20,000 had legitimate tickets which leaves 80,000. Let's assume that several thousand also managed to get hold of tickets from the neutral allocation. I'll generously round that up to 10,000 making 30,000 Liverpool in the stadium. That now leaves 70,000. The Liverpool fan park held 44,000. Let's assume that was full to capacity for the match itself even though it may well not have been. That now leaves 26,000. Where did those 26,000 go?
 
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