Unions

sir baconface said:
Your first sentence gives you away, but let’s move on.

You are describing monoliths where management is frequently mediocre and internal equity is more important than performance. Of course it’s easier to follow the manual than differentiate on the basis of contribution. Result? Plodders are rewarded much the same as top performers.

Meanwhile, in fast-moving environments it’s not a recognised model. Fail to recognise your best and most marketable people and you lose them.

You sound like someone with pretty narrow sectoral experience.
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and you sound like someone informed by the first line of my post that you dismiss. What trades union experience do you really have? Why do you think there are still so many businesses that recognise union representation - for the good of their operation?
 
johnnytapia said:
The same unions that ensured the government backtracked faster than Jeffrey Archer in his prison cell. Only one winner in the kids-back-to-school. debate.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...victory-keeping-schools-closed-September.html
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You do realise that a trades union is there to protect its members not development govt policy? If its not safe they would object - like with asbestos or non fire proof cladding. Even Hancock who says its safe for kids to go back to schools said on BBC this morning that schools in Leicester have to close because children are vectors for transmission of Covid to adults - basic health and safety from the unions but hey the Tories and their rags bash and blame the unions just coz.....
 
bluethrunthru said:
and you sound like someone informed by the first line of my post that you dismiss. What trades union experience do you really have? Why do you think there are still so many businesses that recognise union representation - for the good of their operation?
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Well, when you start a post with a lazy insult, it deserves to be dismissed.

I was in industrial relations management in the mid 1970s and early 1980s, negotiating with multi-union workforces in heavy industry. I’ve experienced constructive union relations at first hand and I’ve also witnessed bolshy twats and flying pickets trying to shut businesses down.

For the last 20 years I’ve worked freelance in many sectors, mainly commercial but also NFP, and specialising recently in high tech. Is that good enough for you?

Not a single one of my client tech companies would dream of recognising unions, yet a number of them appear in “top companies to work for” surveys. They are nimble, they pay well and they treat their people as individuals. “One size fits all” would be anathema to them, although I accept it suits some large, traditional orgs.
 
sir baconface said:
Well, when you start a post with a lazy insult, it deserves to be dismissed.

I was in industrial relations management in the mid 1970s and early 1980s, negotiating with multi-union workforces in heavy industry. I’ve experienced constructive union relations at first hand and I’ve also witnessed bolshy twats and flying pickets trying to shut businesses down.

For the last 20 years I’ve worked freelance in many sectors, mainly commercial but also NFP, and specialising recently in high tech. Is that good enough for you?

Not a single one of my client tech companies would dream of recognising unions, yet a number of them appear in “top companies to work for” surveys. They are nimble, they pay well and they treat their people as individuals. “One size fits all” would be anathema to them, although I accept it suits some large, traditional orgs.
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You can’t think the present equilibrium between capital and labour is a healthy one, surely, SB.
 
sir baconface said:
Well, when you start a post with a lazy insult, it deserves to be dismissed.

I was in industrial relations management in the mid 1970s and early 1980s, negotiating with multi-union workforces in heavy industry. I’ve experienced constructive union relations at first hand and I’ve also witnessed bolshy twats and flying pickets trying to shut businesses down.

For the last 20 years I’ve worked freelance in many sectors, mainly commercial but also NFP, and specialising recently in high tech. Is that good enough for you?

Not a single one of my client tech companies would dream of recognising unions, yet a number of them appear in “top companies to work for” surveys. They are nimble, they pay well and they treat their people as individuals. “One size fits all” would be anathema to them, although I accept it suits some large, traditional orgs.
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Righto so your experience is based upon what - up to the mid 80's? Mine is across a number of employers from 1979 to 2018 so I'd guess my experience actually in a unionised organisation is far more relevant than yours?
 
I'm not saying that unions don't have a role in protecting workers' rights, trouble is some of them take it to the extreme.
We used to manufacture 4 car brands in Australia including Ford Mitsubishi Toyota and Holden GM, now we manufacture none, primary reasons is that Australian employees are the most expensive in the world, not only do we get 4 weeks annual leave plus 10 days statutory leave we also get 10 weeks long service leave every 10 years and we actually get leave loading so higher pay when we are on holiday... this is all come about by union pressure over the years.
Australian wages are amongst the highest in the world including a minimum wage of about $20 an hour.
Unions have done a great job getting all these benefits for workers manufacturing is getting less & Less.
 
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Power does funny things to people. Whether they are part of the establishment, or trying to tear the establishment down, the formula is essentialLy the same: people are cunts, or certainly all have the capacity to be cunts.

Ultimately, they want everything for themselves. Money, ideas, attention.

The more people get, the more they want. It is a a highly unpleasant characteristic quirk in our species.
 
I truly believe that unions are necessary and a force for good for a great many people, if properly implemented. My own first-hand experience of them however has not been good. The first two jobs I had were in union shops and it was like something out of I’m Alright Jack.
 
sir baconface said:
Not a single one of my client tech companies would dream of recognising unions, yet a number of them appear in “top companies to work for” surveys.
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Well sort of, but that's only because if you do any of the sorts of jobs that might have traditionally been unionised, you probably don't actually work for them. 40 years ago if you worked for a company like Apple as a cleaner or on a production line, you'd get the same benefits as their engineers (legally, in America). Nowadays, you don't work for Apple at all, you were for some cleaning company or Foxconn on minimal benefits. So it's no wonder they can give good benefits and working conditions when they outsource all of the less pleasant jobs.
 
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