VAR - 2020/21

Status
Not open for further replies.
PannickAtTheDisco said:
up to a foot.
Click to expand...
A foot is about right if the equipment has a margin of error of around 30cms. That is probably about where you can see "clear daylight" If they did this most decisions would be correct. The line-drawing farce is subject to human error. Another way would be just to take the position on the line of the front foot. This debate about shirt sleeves and arm position is just absurd.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
A foot is about right if the equipment has a margin of error of around 30cms. That is probably about where you can see "clear daylight" If they did this most decisions would be correct. The line-drawing farce is subject to human error. Another way would be just to take the position on the line of the front foot. This debate about shirt sleeves and arm position is just absurd.
Click to expand...
Agree it should only be any part of the leg, the toe to the knee
 
The technology is not the problem imho. The problem is that the offside rule is no longer fit for purpose in a “VAR world”
I would change it so that if any part of the attacker‘s leading foot is level with any part of the last defender’s foot, then the attacker is onside.

Not withstanding that, the decision in the West Ham game was ludicrous. The correct decision was either to allow the goal to stand or award Villa a penalty.(imho)
 
Tonight was an absolute farce. How else is a player supposed to run?
Over thinking yet again. Keep it simple, just go off the feet. Forget ear lobes, nostril hair and toe nails, keep it to one part of the body, years ago it went off your feet, you could lean forward and lever yourself as long as your feet wasn't offside.
Then you are only looking at one part of the body instead of looking at elbows and hands. It's ridiculous saying your arm is offside as you can't score with your arm, just have it where the attackers feet are planted, job done, simple enough, you score with your feet, end of story.
No need to get the crayons out and have different thickness of lines.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
how many inches should they allow a player to be offside ?
Click to expand...
I've got no solutions that involve offside and VAR pal; people point to changing the rule for offside but whatever this new interpretation is (level/clear daylight/etc) we'll simple be in exactly the same position as we are now with PiGMOL pointing to examples where an attacker's trailing bootlace is still level with the stud on the outstretched leg of the defender so he's onside (exactly the same arguments as now just shunted forward a bit); the issue is, as somebody else has already said, the technology simply isn't up to the task (frame rate of camera vs speed of players run) to be accurate to the degree that they're implementing.

There is NO solution for offsides as far as "accurate to the mm" and VAR are concerned.

I'd say, leave the officials to do their jobs as they did before, let them officiate the match (both the refs and the linesmen), give them back full responsibility for decisions BUT with the additional tool of Video replays for all goals to check to see if an obvious error has been made.
If it takes longer than one or two replays,
if they need to zoom in,
if they need to draw silly little lines,
then it's ONSIDE,
if you can see without these elements,
then it's OFFSIDE.

It's not perfect and it's still open to debate but sport can't really be perfect, it's not maths.

We were sold a pup. We were sold "clear and obvious" but that's apparently open to interpretation now too.
Was Jesus clearly and obviously offside when he got our 6th on Saturday?
Was Salah clearly and obviously offside at the weekend?
Did Jesus clearly and obviously handle it when we "equalised" against Spurs?

(These are rhetorical questions and I don't really care for your interpretation of each of these cases.)

These "errors" that VAR are now finding are NOT what the game was being ruined by. NOBODY was moaning about these sorts of decisions. What people wanted were the blatant handball goals, the "he was yards offside" goals, the off the ball elbows, the diving for pens, the feigning of injuries when there was little or no contact, the keepers handling the ball outside the area, the ball going out of play but play continues, ...etc...etc...

...the OBVIOUS errors that the officials missed, but these things are still occurring, regularly, whilst some cock in a box looks to see if a bloke's nostril hairs are offside. It's bollocks, it's being implemented to check to see if the wrong rules have been broken.
 
It's a farce. How the Premier League cocked it up so badly without corruption being the route cause of that is beyond comprehension.

They've fucked the offside rule, it was a simple rule many moons ago, you got the odd howler but they tended to even out over a season, now it's being judged cause a players hand was offside, which also depends what frame was used by the VAR official. It's to easily manipulated to give them the result they want.

Handball is even worse, someone changed that rule and made it utterly confusing, when for over 100 years it was fine. But they even miss those and blatant one's, Liverpool get away with it in their box almost every fortnight.

Villa got absolutely robbed this morning, it's not offside and it's a clear penalty before that had occurred, yet the moron missed that as well.
 
Just seen it myself. Scrap it, I've had it with VAR.

The people using it to make decisions are incompetent, the rules they are supposed to abide by are a mess and the technology itself, something I've always maintained was not the issue, is patently unable to keep up with the play.

VAR is changing the way teams play the game, encouraging diving and self initiated contact, sapping enjoyment and spontaneity from every moment and on top of that isn't even making the right calls.

Bin it. For the love of the game, just bin it.
 
Also our trip to Anfield last season where we were robbed two handball penalties, one which lead directly to their first goal sum the entire thing up. The excuse was what, oh it wasn't working in the first half wasn't it? It's corrupt for one, and two the guys using it aren't using it for what it's intended to be used for.

It's a second referee now, not correcting clear and obvious errors like it's intended for. How FIFA haven't stepped in and blasted the Premier League is beyond me, but I guess there is no money in it for FIFA to fix the bloody game.
 
It's not a second referee as much as a tool to manipulate the game and the result. Certain teams put the ball in the net and there is no VAR check even though there is a possibility of an infringement either at the point of gaol scoring or in the build up. Other teams have almost every goal microscopically checked for any possibility to strike off the goal. I did not beleive the conspiricy therorists at first but as the season goes on I am starting the believe them more and more. The game has gone :-(
 
manimanc said:
Tonight was an absolute farce. How else is a player supposed to run?
Over thinking yet again. Keep it simple, just go off the feet. Forget ear lobes, nostril hair and toe nails, keep it to one part of the body, years ago it went off your feet, you could lean forward and lever yourself as long as your feet wasn't offside.
Then you are only looking at one part of the body instead of looking at elbows and hands. It's ridiculous saying your arm is offside as you can't score with your arm, just have it where the attackers feet are planted, job done, simple enough, you score with your feet, end of story.
No need to get the crayons out and have different thickness of lines.
Click to expand...
it was that close a call that all them daft lines proved nothing, they simply guessed in the end....
 
Dean Smith.....although on the wrong end of the decision and obviously is going to disagree with it......has called it spot on IMO.

---------------------------------------

“It was just wrong. That is the easiest way to describe it,” he said.
“Offside is offside, I have no problem with that rule. But they have given offside for a part of the body that can’t put the ball in the back of the net.
“The only reason the arm is where it is, is because he is being fouled by someone who had his arms round his neck.

“If it is not a goal then it is a penalty. It was more of a penalty than the one we did get.

“They have got it wrong and are probably spending so much time looking at the offside they don’t look at the foul.
“There needs to be more clarity. Offside should be an easy one but we are looking at different parts of the body and they don’t even look at the penalty.
“My problem with VAR is referees making subjective decisions. That should not happen.”
 
the-ecstacy-of-eight said:
I've got no solutions that involve offside and VAR pal; people point to changing the rule for offside but whatever this new interpretation is (level/clear daylight/etc) we'll simple be in exactly the same position as we are now with PiGMOL pointing to examples where an attacker's trailing bootlace is still level with the stud on the outstretched leg of the defender so he's onside (exactly the same arguments as now just shunted forward a bit); the issue is, as somebody else has already said, the technology simply isn't up to the task (frame rate of camera vs speed of players run) to be accurate to the degree that they're implementing.

There is NO solution for offsides as far as "accurate to the mm" and VAR are concerned.

I'd say, leave the officials to do their jobs as they did before, let them officiate the match (both the refs and the linesmen), give them back full responsibility for decisions BUT with the additional tool of Video replays for all goals to check to see if an obvious error has been made.
If it takes longer than one or two replays,
if they need to zoom in,
if they need to draw silly little lines,
then it's ONSIDE,
if you can see without these elements,
then it's OFFSIDE.

It's not perfect and it's still open to debate but sport can't really be perfect, it's not maths.

We were sold a pup. We were sold "clear and obvious" but that's apparently open to interpretation now too.
Was Jesus clearly and obviously offside when he got our 6th on Saturday?
Was Salah clearly and obviously offside at the weekend?
Did Jesus clearly and obviously handle it when we "equalised" against Spurs?

(These are rhetorical questions and I don't really care for your interpretation of each of these cases.)

These "errors" that VAR are now finding are NOT what the game was being ruined by. NOBODY was moaning about these sorts of decisions. What people wanted were the blatant handball goals, the "he was yards offside" goals, the off the ball elbows, the diving for pens, the feigning of injuries when there was little or no contact, the keepers handling the ball outside the area, the ball going out of play but play continues, ...etc...etc...

...the OBVIOUS errors that the officials missed, but these things are still occurring, regularly, whilst some cock in a box looks to see if a bloke's nostril hairs are offside. It's bollocks, it's being implemented to check to see if the wrong rules have been broken.
Click to expand...
The obvious errors are still being covered up, even with the help of VAR (TAA handball for one). In the case of offside, the human eye is more accurate (100fps equivalent) than the technology (50fps).

Let the on field officials decide if any part of the attacker (other than the arms) is in front of the last defender as the ball is played.
 
Said it ages ago that I could not understand the dearth of official information available. The video highlighting the technical flaws is spot on, it took me about five minutes to come up with some pretty fundamental problems that would stem from using the ordinary camera feeds. It was sold to us as being like Hawkeye - but it's nothing of the sort. It's a cheap and nasty solution, used for critical decisions, in a multi-billion dollar industry. They should have stuck with goal line tech for a couple of years, and learned the lessons from that. Other sports have approached the issue with a great deal more clarity and have had solid solutions succesfully implemented for DECADES now.

What an amateurish shambles! Everyone involved needs sacking, and the next leadership should come with one focus - stop thinking of the game as something that happens on Sky, oh and we have to deal with the FA and UEFA blah blah.
 
I havent once seen a VAR off-side picture of when there is a gap between the foot and ball. All I have seen is a white blurred egg shape 'ball' , I cant see if the ball has left the foot or if the ball is still in contact with the boot. VAR at best is a guess at worse a mechanism to fix games.
 
give it to gordon said:
I havent once seen a VAR off-side picture of when there is a gap between the foot and ball. All I have seen is a white blurred egg shape 'ball' , I cant see if the ball has left the foot or if the ball is still in contact with the boot. VAR at best is a guess at worse a mechanism to fix games.
Click to expand...

That’s not the test. The moment to test is when the foot first makes contact with the ball, which is a fraction of a second earlier, not when the ball leaves the foot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top