Var debate 2019/20

What I find frustrating in these matters is that no UEFA representative can come forward and profer an explanation of the system. I appreciate that referees are not allowed to explain their decisions nor be questioned on them, but UEFA really ought to have someone capable of explaining how the system should operate and what evidently went wrong last night. It appears as if UEFA thinks the code of silence that covers referees somehow extends to itself and its system, but that is unacceptable.

We had a referee who wasn't allowed to see anything in Gelsenkirchen, a referee who wasn't allowed to see everything last night, and an organization that seems determined to say nothing about anything at all times.
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
Click to expand...

When all is said and done, it was a fantastic game and credit to you lot for not sitting on that first leg lead. I think you're a bit like City in that respect in that you're better when you're attacking and defending a lead isn't really in your team's DNA (not that City and Spurs don't have the capability to defend well, but we're both teams that like to play on the front foot)

With regards to VAR, I've always wanted it and still do. I've said time and time again that the technology is fine but it's not always implemented/interpreted properly. Just to clarify, the Rose handball was correctly given as a penalty because that's the directive UEFA issued before this season's knockout stages and we were on the receiving end of one of those against Schalke. And I've no issue with the last goal being disallowed because it was proven to be offside. However. the contentious issue is your 3rd goal and the fact that not all replays were allegedly available to the ref, in particular the most damning one. Not only that, but the directive is that accidental handball when scoring a goal should mean that the goal doesn't stand. All I want to see is the rules being applied fairly and consistently the nobody can have any complaints.

By the way, Spurs aren't the issue here. It's not your club's fault that the goal was allowed to stand.
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
Click to expand...

Mate, the handball rules are different for attackers. According to a recent UEFA directive, ANY use of the arm, deliberate or accidental, means that a goal must be disallowed. Don't feel bad. Most of us on here didn't know this until last night/this morning. So, excuse us, if we're fucked off with being knocked out by a goal that shouldn't have been.
 
jrb said:
MUEN.

VAR was introduced in the Champions League knockout phase this season and is operated by a video assistant referee, his assistant and two video operators.

MEN Sport asked Uefa who makes the decision on which angles the referee sees but they have offered no answer as yet.They indicated that there is a dialogue between the referee and the VAR – and that the control room has every available camera feed.

That leaves open the question as to why the referee repeatedly watched an angle from which the handball was not apparent.

A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”
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Surely following the ball and where it continues to be seen is why the var was introduced?
Lets see if the ref and uefa agree otherwise no point to other views of the refs view of the proceedings.
Regarding the game itself, what a great display by both teams.
We actually won the game last night even though it feels and over two legs became a defeat so no disgrace there. The result stands no matter what transpires.

I have easily reverted back to my feelings after a yesteryear defeat for the old City so disappointed but ¡Ah well! on to the next game.
 
jrb said:
MUEN.
A Uefa spokesperson simply said when asked to comment: “All relevant angles were made available to the referee to take his decision last night.”
Click to expand...
That`s just bullshit. On TV you could see that the ref was NOT shown the angle behind the goal that showed it hit Llorente`s arm. How the fuck can they actually claim that all angles were made available for the ref, when everyone could see it wasn`t? UEFA are some corrupt fuckers. I wouldn`t be arsed at all if we were banned from this joke competition
 
A sport like cricket can have a proper system for technology usage but a truly Global sport with billions in revenue can't come up with a uniform, controversy free system.

Thank God there was no VAR when Aguerooo happened.
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
Click to expand...
Let's see if you feel the same if it happens to you
 
Can't really blame VAR for us going out last night. Think the calls were correct. Fair play to Spurs for their part in a belting match for the neutrals. Wouldn't begrudge them winning the whole thing.
 
jrb said:
Why don’t UEFA 3D, 360, software, where the VAR officlas can freeze that moment, spin the player around, zoom in and out, view form any angle, etc, to show exactly where the ball is?

It’s used in movies, etc.

But we talking about UEFA.
Click to expand...
Hi jrb, I wonder if the speed of the ball actually defeats the frame rate of the equipment?
By that I mean pick a frame and then the next one, unless we have hi speed slo mo frames the ball can travel quite a distance in that 25 frames per second.
More of a problem when defining offsides but can you get 2 different views of where the ball is depending on which frame you look at?
Seem to remember something along these lines when var first proposed on a different thread.
 
M18CTID said:
When all is said and done, it was a fantastic game and credit to you lot for not sitting on that first leg lead. I think you're a bit like City in that respect in that you're better when you're attacking and defending a lead isn't really in your team's DNA (not that City and Spurs don't have the capability to defend well, but we're both teams that like to play on the front foot)

With regards to VAR, I've always wanted it and still do. I've said time and time again that the technology is fine but it's not always implemented/interpreted properly. Just to clarify, the Rose handball was correctly given as a penalty because that's the directive UEFA issued before this season's knockout stages and we were on the receiving end of one of those against Schalke. And I've no issue with the last goal being disallowed because it was proven to be offside. However. the contentious issue is your 3rd goal and the fact that not all replays were allegedly available to the ref, in particular the most damning one. Not only that, but the directive is that accidental handball when scoring a goal should mean that the goal doesn't stand. All I want to see is the rules being applied fairly and consistently the nobody can have any complaints.

By the way, Spurs aren't the issue here. It's not your club's fault that the goal was allowed to stand.
Click to expand...
Very good post
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, the offside decision is probably more disputable than the handball decision, as the freeze frame shown by the broadcasters is dubious (frozen too early in the sequence) and the frame used by VAR was strangely not shown (unlike most other contentious offside decisions in the CL this campaign, including Mane’s goal yesterday).
 
VAR will kill the match going experience when it comes in on a weekly basis next year.

Hypothetical situation, but what happens if for instance Aguero is offside and receives the ball out wide. Not flagged, nothing given and we go back and play it around for another minute or so before scoring a good goal without a stoppage or turnover in play. Does it get called back? Does game time rewind? Who knows.

I thought the ref last night was excellent by the way, from what he saw on the monitors I don't blame him at all for the decision, he was let down by the team above him.
 
Got in to a discussion last year on here with a poster about Sky wanting to have a say in VAR. I still believe the amount of money the tv companies are paying they will have their way.
 
Dan B said:
Spurs fan in peace.

Firstly, I think your players were absolutely amazing last night. You were the better team and probably should have won.

On the flip side, we do not have your resources, and had our star man missing. We only had 2 fit centre midfielders (although Wanyama is barely fit at all), and one of those went off injured.

Our players showed amazing fight and spirit to even compete against you.

It is a crying shame that some of your fans wish to solely blame VAR. If you were on the other side of those decisions you wouldn’t be seeing things this way.

OK, so if it brushed Llorente’s arm, was his arm in an unnatural position? That is the current rule. You were happy to get a penalty for Rose’s block? The goal was given, and I cannot say there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ to overturn it. Most angles are not even conclusive!

The offside was offside. This is a line decision. It can’t be disputed.

I feel like your old school fans are taking it like men, but maybe the new fans you have attracted are the ones who sound like the victimised Scousers.

Your team is amazing and you lost a really tight game. Be proud. Don’t just blame VAR and UEFA - you are a better club than that.
Click to expand...

In peace, we lost the tie but not the game. ;-)

The Rose incident will be balanced in the eyes of many here with the Otamendi incident in Gelsenkirchen. In truth, neither were penalties (in my old eyes, nobody even appealed!), but those come down to a new form of UEFA interpretation and are thus subjective. The Llorente incident, however, has nothing to do with an unnatural position and all to do with the referee not being shown one particular angle when asked to redeliberate his decision, one that conclusively shows it hit arm before hip. I went to sleep not having seen said angle and accepted the defeat as I thought it had gone in off his hip. Having seen the angle this morning, I realized yet another mistake has been made. It's not a question of victimhood or conspiracy, simply pointing out that a system that was designed to eliminate wrong decisions is still deeply flawed and that should worry us all.

It's all about irradicating these mistakes and making the system better. After all, you never know, you may yourselves be on the wrong end of such a decision when you take your superior 'resources' to Amsterdam. ;-)
 
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