Var debate 2019/20

[BlueAnorak]

Am I correct to assume that fouls, in the penalty area, will not be var'd from now on ?

Only if the ref isnt sure of his decision.

 

[HarrytheBlue]

It's 50 frames a second. UHDTV.
Watching a HDTV version at 25 frames a second,
I still can't see a definitive touch of the ball by Laporte's hand. I can definately see the defender holding his arm (surely a pen?) And I can see it touch Laporte's head but there is no evidence it touched Laporte's hand - indeed it could equally be said to have touched the defendersxarm.

I've watched it about 50 times, and what bothers me most is the lack of any mention of the grab on Laporte's arm by the defender a second or so before the handball. The ball ricochets between Laporte and the defender. The change of direction of the ball suggests it hit Laporte's arm, but equally it also appears to have hit the defender's arm. Like you say, the grab was surely a pen, but the pen should be overridden because we scored despite being fouled. Suspend VAR and only bring it back when it's as absolute and instant as goal-line technology.

 

[citymad]

There will be no winners with VAR mate regardless of whether we get the decision in our favour or not. Its a destruction of the unbridled joy of seeing a goal and getting lost in the moment. I would rather have incorrect decisions made by a human being on the field of play rather than have VAR destroy the emotion of every goal going forward.

This deserves better than a like. Sums it up perfectly. We'll never be able to celebrate properly, its natural to be guarded when you've been kicked in the stomach one too many times.

 

[hants_bluepants]

I tend to keep very quiet on here and rely on Mrs Bluepants to keep me up to speed - lazy, I know! However, I wanted to stick my five eggs in as I feel sick to my stomach about recent events. I'm not going to hurt the club I support by flouncing off in a huff, especially having spent the last 10 or 11 years travelling from where we used to live near Bournemouth to every home game (I moved to Cheshire in November 2018) and during that time have seen City become one of the world's greatest football teams. Absolutely no way. I don't hold out any hope that City will not suffer from all kinds of bias during the forthcoming season but I really fear that VAR could actually precipitate a riot. What I would like to do is humbly make the following suggestions to offset the utterly negative impact of VAR which, worryingly, has forcibly manifested itself after only the first two games of the season - I apologise if I am repeating what may have already been said: (1) change the offside rule, (2) change the handball rule, (3) as soon as VAR kicks in, sound a fkin loud siren or klaxon so the paying punters get an immediate warning of what's happening.

 

[mancity56]

robots refereeing games soon, mark my word... games a bogey

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Does anyone think VAR is ruining the game?

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

It's 50 frames a second. UHDTV.
Watching a HDTV version at 25 frames a second,
I still can't see a definitive touch of the ball by Laporte's hand. I can definately see the defender holding his arm (surely a pen?) And I can see it touch Laporte's head but there is no evidence it touched Laporte's hand - indeed it could equally be said to have touched the defendersxarm.

I watched a Bein video the week after the West Ham game mate (on youtube) Andy Gray said the var technology runs at 25 fps.

I agree, I think we are in a dangerous situation where the var official can see what he wants, without any comeback. The non penalty being a prime example as well.

I haven't really watched the disallowed goal back as I'm still too pissed off to watch it tbh.

 

[Dribble]

I watched a Bein video the week after the West Ham game mate (on youtube) Andy Gray said the var technology runs at 25 fps.

I agree, I think we are in a dangerous situation where the var official can see what he wants, without any comeback. The non penalty being a prime example as well.

I haven't really watched the disallowed goal back as I'm still too pissed off to watch it tbh.

25 or 50 frames per second isn't enough mate. Sane was clocked at 22mph last season which equates to 10 metres per second.

If FIFA say offside is triggered when the player making the pass first touches the ball, & the time it takes a player to kick a ball averages 0.055 seconds, that means in the time it takes to make a pass, Leroy would have covered more than 5 metres.

VAR doesn't account for this which is why this element of VAR needs to be suspended & returned to the ref & his assistants, until a better mechanism is found.

At 50 frames per second, huge amounts of movement by a flying player will be missed. The absolute minimum which should be used is 960 fps. Obviously TV can't handle all that data for broadcast, but specialist VAR cameras fed by fibre optic lines straight to Stockley House is more than possible.

This is the difference 960 fps could make when looking closely at offsides & penalty area handballs. No bullshit blurry images, or AI making best guesses.

 

[christened at st marks]

25 or 50 frames per second isn't enough mate. Sane was clocked at 22mph last season which equates to 10 metres per second.

If FIFA say offside is triggered when the player making the pass first touches the ball, & the time it takes a player to kick a ball averages 0.055 seconds, that means in the time it takes to make a pass, Leroy would have covered more than 5 metres.

VAR doesn't account for this which is why this element of VAR needs to be suspended & returned to the ref & his assistants, until a better mechanism is found.

At 50 frames per second, huge amounts of movement by a flying player will be missed. The absolute minimum which should be used is 960 fps. Obviously TV can't handle all that data for broadcast, but specialist VAR cameras fed by fibre optic lines straight to Stockley House is more than possible.

This is the difference 960 fps could make when looking closely at offsides & penalty area handballs. No bullshit blurry images, or AI making best guesses.

TV and Movie frequency's, we are talking Sky TV here, the vertical frequency of television was set before colour TV came out.









Having said that they would change the TV system in the UK and Europe for the Candleholders and Rag twats

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I tend to keep very quiet on here and rely on Mrs Bluepants to keep me up to speed - lazy, I know! However, I wanted to stick my five eggs in as I feel sick to my stomach about recent events. I'm not going to hurt the club I support by flouncing off in a huff, especially having spent the last 10 or 11 years travelling from where we used to live near Bournemouth to every home game (I moved to Cheshire in November 2018) and during that time have seen City become one of the world's greatest football teams. Absolutely no way. I don't hold out any hope that City will not suffer from all kinds of bias during the forthcoming season but I really fear that VAR could actually precipitate a riot. What I would like to do is humbly make the following suggestions to offset the utterly negative impact of VAR which, worryingly, has forcibly manifested itself after only the first two games of the season - I apologise if I am repeating what may have already been said: (1) change the offside rule, (2) change the handball rule, (3) as soon as VAR kicks in, sound a fkin loud siren or klaxon so the paying punters get an immediate warning of what's happening.

Can’t change the rules this season, as it would be unfair to those teams already affected by VAR, including game changing goals.

 

[ballinio]

There will be no winners with VAR mate regardless of whether we get the decision in our favour or not. Its a destruction of the unbridled joy of seeing a goal and getting lost in the moment. I would rather have incorrect decisions made by a human being on the field of play rather than have VAR destroy the emotion of every goal going forward.

100% correct.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I'm not sure why there are complaints about the handball not being 'clear and obvious'. I don't think there is any requirement for this to be C&O, just as with offside. Hitting the arm is hitting the arm.

The VARring of potential fouls seems nerfed completely. The VAR man has to see something definitive enough to make the ref overrule himself, pitchside reviews are to be very rare, so all the onfield ref needs to say is 'I'm certain' and that's that. It would be better not to use it at all than this half-arsed version.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Wait until Rashford is pulled down tonight and a penalty is given, this will show it up for what it is.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Can’t change the rules this season, as it would be unfair to those teams already affected by VAR, including game changing goals.

Disagree after united game tonight change it, only 2 games have passed I’d rather 36 without it than with

 

[Champions again in 2012]

Strong words from Garth Crooks tucked at the end of his team of the week analysis

Tottenham's Erik Lamela practically assaulted Manchester City's Rodri in the box and VAR said nothing. Why? If Referee Michael Oliver did not see it then it was a clear and obvious error and VAR should have brought it to the referee's attention. So no help there.

Did this technological 'know it all' not see what everyone else saw or did this scientific genius go for a comfort break? Of course not. VAR is a spoiler. It seeks and searches for error. He's a show off! VAR comes into its own when it can combine the evidence with the facts. "Don't blame me!" it shouts. "I'm just giving you the facts and attaching them to the evidence and the laws of the game."

Meanwhile, the game has developed a virus but football doesn't know it yet and it's in danger of affecting the whole game. VAR's decision to disallow Gabriel Jesus' injury-time goal based on the new law, introduced this season, regarding handball, was nothing short of laughable. The law is an ass but more worryingly the game is in danger of becoming a joke.

 

[55yr old teenager]

By looking at the video. It’s far clearer than taking a random still that doesn’t show the context.

Even if it didn’t hit his arm, why are you bothering wasting energy on it?

It’s happened.

Looks to me like it hit his shoulder!!!! Which is not considered hand ball!!!

 

[GSW Blue]

So if the ball had deflected off the defenders arm on to Laporte’s arm and Jesus scores, the correct decision is Spurs free kick.

I’m out.

 

[give it to gordon]

Back at work now and still feeling well pissed of haven't felt this bad for years .......still cant believe we have been screwed over twice already .......well I can believe!!

 

[flook]

by the laws of the game it's irrelevant whether the ball hit Laportes arm

HANDLING THE BALL

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

He never had possession, hence irrelevant, goal should have stood

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Wait until Rashford is pulled down tonight and a penalty is given, this will show it up for what it is.

This has never been a requirement for MANUre, or the Dippers, to be awarded a pen. The only element necessary for a Rag or Dipper penalty is the 'down' bit, although before the season ends I expect both Salah and Rashford to be awarded a penalty kick and for them to remain on their feet.