Var debate 2019/20

[hcblue]

Just watched Ref watch on sky sports with that **** Dermot Gallagher.

The Law 12 display that Sky were showing stated
~ the following handball situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick
~ the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm

And quite conveniently that misquotes that bit of law 12. It actually says “goes DIRECTLY into the goal”

And unsurprisingly the misquote supported the desperate attempts to justify what can only be seen imo as a set of bent decisions

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

but thats irrelevant, see the underlined but, for the goalscoring opportunity to come into play, Laporte would have had to gain control, which he obviously didn't

We know that, the entire football supporting fraternity know that, MotD know that, the Hottentots in the Kalahari know that, my dog (if I had one) would know that, and I'd even go as far as to say that Oliver and Scott know that. The issue is why they didn't apply that for Gab's goal! I imagine that the Ollie and Scotty combo will not make another appearance at any PL match for the rest of this season. Instead, they are looking for Ollie and Stan to officiate at The Etihad.

Wouldn't it be nice for the PL and the FA to reinstate that goal for the away game 'darn at The Lane'?

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

If, as has been widely reported, it is true that VAR has a margin of error of 13cms on off side calls because of the camera speed then it is impossible to give any one offside by less than 13 cms. Surely this change has to be brought in immediately. The simplest solution is to use 13 cms as the guideline ie you can only be offside by more than 13 cms to take account of the limit of the technology. Doing this would cut out most of the nonsense decisions.

Our forwards will be offside by 131mm minimum - every fucking time!

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Having a linesman patrolling each half of the pitch on both sides, & linesmen either side of each goal was mooted, but was deemed to expensive, & too interfering.

After what I've seen this season so far, I'd have 8 assistants & a referee as well as VAR. They need all the help they can get before this blows up.

VAR has to just be for the obvious errors, that's where it is going wrong. It's trying to measure the grey areas and it cannot be done and probably never will. I don't know of any fans who were that irked by very close offside calls - you win some you lose some, and I think if Laporte had handled the ball intentionally the fans would see it and the opposition appeal.

A guy I knew who was in the army said they had a motto; KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid! Those behind VAR have over-promised.

 

[manimanc]

I personally think that if there enough complaints from fans, not just us, VAR will be binned.
I just can't see it lasting.

 

[jollylescott]

I still can’t get my head around a law that favours the defending team over the attacking team in the penalty area.

Defenders are permitted to accidentally handle the ball and there will be no penalty. However, if the ball grazes the arm of an attacking player accidentally, and a goal is subsequently scored, it’s a mandatory no goal.

So you have the farcical situation whereby two players are standing beside one another, with different laws being applied. That’s so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Stevieatlasblue]

Good article by Martin Lipton in the daily mail

 

[Onholiday(somemightsay)]

Perhaps the solution is each club has a representative placed in the VAR box who can ask for an explanation and see the decision process in action.

I vote for Andy Morrison or Joey Barton to be ours.

Yes for Big Andy, no to Sir Joseph........

 

[TonyM]

365 pages and I still haven't seen a single pic from the reverse angle showing the ball hitting Laporte. The only thing we have seen is inconclusive pictures of both players with arms up (spuds defender more so that Laporte) and the ball changing flight from contact from one or the other. I think the VAR officials GUESSED that it was Laporte's arm which therefore isn't a factual decision.

This to me is the key. There should always be conclusive evidence. And they should be stored and available for useful metrics and to prove over time that there is no bias in play.

For a point in time decision like the new handball rule or offside I think the process should be that VAR can immediately publish to a public location a single image with proof and if not then should go with the decision that favours the attacking team.

For decisions that are more subjective then a short video of evidence should be published. This could be used for penalty decisions, violent conduct, red card decisions, etc. I don't understand why the ref did not ask for VAR on the Rodri incident. I'd have thought that the sensible thing would be for the VAR team to analyze everything in the box and raise the alarm for the ref to review. This is just bad refereeing I guess. I would just ask the authorities to log these failures also publicly.

 

[marco]

i think VAR can work but only in the right circumstances and im sure their would be no complaints if say we scored a goal which the camera found their was a fowl prior to the goal, what i dont like is this so called panel of experts looking at this,we have no idea who or even where they are,we have no idea if they lean to one team or the other with favoritism,the more people that are involved with the decision making then the more the chances for corruption

 

[TonyM]

Regarding Refs I'm starting to change my opinion on what role they should play. In the past I thought a good ref should not be noticed and the likes of Clattenbourg were a scourge. But now I'm wondering if the best way forward is to embrace them becoming personalities. Let them take center stage in showing that they are fair minded, that evidence supports that they get more right than wrong, that if they are famous or well paid professionals that it doesn't corrupt or distract them, that there is no bias, etc.

I say this because (like I posted earlier) I think there stats should be publicly published. And in that case they might prefer to face any criticism straight on in the public domain.

The game is changing and maybe the referees need to significantly change. Profit based on consistent metrics showing they are excellent at their profession, be able to move to leagues the want the best referees globally available, open to the fact that they get some things wrong but they are assisted by technology to limit this as much as possible, free to publicly state their opinions on the rules of the game (backed up again by their track record of fairness), etc. Maybe if they went public it would all become more transparent.

And then when that's all done maybe the shadowy characters in the PL and FA can come forward and show how they can be trusted. I have a dream....

 

[waspish]

When questioned about it, the ref was pointing to his earpiece & shrugging his shoulders. I can only take that to mean, 'No one's pointed it out to me mate'.

There was an arm around Rodri's neck.

There was contact with his legs.

The opposition player fell the fuck on top of Rodri.

With VAR in operation, on what planet isn't that a fuckin penalty?

Did they ask himto tell the VAR men in the box to have look at it? Or was he the Referee of our game waiting for someone in a box to point out it was a penalty? If this is how Mike “the wanker” Riley want to run Var he wants Sacking the Bent C@NT.

 

[kaz7]

It's about chalking off goals,that seems to be the sole aim and less penalties given,no wonder we are getting hit the hardest,almost as if it was designed just for us.....

 

[Bluephoria]

Just watched Ref watch on sky sports with that **** Dermot Gallagher. Said the rule was brought in as a result of 3 incidents last season Boly for wolves against us, Aguero against Arsenal and Nathan Redmond.

I don't recall the Nathan Redmond one but I am assuming that it was similar to Boly and Aguero in that as a direct consequence of the handball a goal was scored.

The Law 12 display that Sky were showing stated
~ the following handball situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick
~ the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm

Quite simple really because that is exactly what happened last season with Boly, Aguero and Redmond, the ball went into the goal after touching their hand/arm.

The Sky display was wrong (or at least ,ambiguous), Law 12 includes "scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm" . Sky's paraphrase might be read to mean 'any attacking player's hand/arm' and the Law does not say that .

Part of the problem is the casual approach to what the law says and the way it has been paraphrased. Pundits on MotD even appeared to accept the Sky version and extend it to all attacking players.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

As far as Manchester City is concerned I'm afraid it's.

Vibrator
Analy
Received

 

[hihosilva]

It's about chalking off goals,that seems to be the sole aim and less penalties given,no wonder we are getting hit the hardest,almost as if it was designed just for us.....

I think at the end of the season the stats will show that we will have had the most goals chalked off, simply because we create far more chances than any other team.

 

[PistonBlue]

Sorry for my late reply back, I was told to stop posting on BM and do some work. When it is your missus telling you, well you have to do as you are told ! …….. I realise that the Bernie foul would not be VAR'd and this is the VAR thread (One of many !) I asked because you are teetering on the edge of the agenda conspiracy whereas I an full blown into it. There is no legitimate way that a referee can see that as anything other than a foul for City. When I saw it from the Colin Bell stand the linesman flagged first and then dipstick blew. I thought and everyone around me thought he had blown for a foul FOR City. Other than a bias/agenda I cannot see any legitimate reason why the two idiots thought that wasn't the case. Even if they hadn't given it I would have accepted it but to give it against Berne it is simply bent.

Hard to disagree with any of that. I only say ‘sympathetic’ as there’s no actual proof of corruption. I do agree though the only way you could give Spurs the free kick in that situation is if you’re blind or cheating.

 

[kaz7]

The bile and vitriol being posted over a correct decision is staggering . I'm reading about pitch invasions because a decision went against us ? What's next ? Assaulting the ref ?

You'll end up costing us more than 2 correctly ruled out points . You'll get us point deductions and stadium bans . That's really going to help . People suggesting this nonsense are a disgrace to the genuine lover of the game . We've been through far worse than a disallowed goal and come through it . Show a bit of class.

So you joined up yesterday with that name to slag blues off,hmm

 

[edinburgh123]

i think VAR can work but only in the right circumstances and im sure their would be no complaints if say we scored a goal which the camera found their was a fowl prior to the goal, what i dont like is this so called panel of experts looking at this,we have no idea who or even where they are,we have no idea if they lean to one team or the other with favoritism,the more people that are involved with the decision making then the more the chances for corruption

If we get called offside because a chicken interferes with play in an offside position it really will be time to quit

 

[Bunchofdickovs]

So you joined up yesterday with that name to slag blues off,hmm

Slag blues off ? what? because i don't agree that pitch invasions and violence are acceptable and believe it will do the club more harm than good ? it's idiotic behaviour .