VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[bluenova]

It’s such a rare occurrence that it couldn’t possibly be specifically legislated for.

The only possible reason VAR could justify getting involved would be if they thought it came under the umbrella of:

*attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)•

It’s a push to interpret placing the ball as the ‘build up’ though.

One thing is for certain. If VAR had got involved, there would be a thousand clips of other free kicks all over social media this morning, where the player moved the ball slightly and the goal stood.

Have you ever seen a player move the referees markings?

Surely that's would be a fairly simple case of unsporting behaviour, and so be cautionable?

Why wouldn't it be covered by 'shows a lack of respect for the game', ;attempts to deceive the referee', or 'makes unauthorised marks on the field of play"?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Have you ever seen a player move the referees markings?

Surely that's would be a fairly simple case of unsporting behaviour, and so be cautionable?

Why wouldn't it be covered by 'shows a lack of respect for the game', ;attempts to deceive the referee', or 'makes unauthorised marks on the field of play"?

David Luiz moves referee's spray at PSG free-kick to get better angle

The tool was introduced to football to help referees keep players sticking to the rules, but David Luiz found a way to make vanishing spray disappear on Tuesday night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[mattcity5]

Players move the ball at most free kicks, whether it’s to gain 5 yards from an offside free kick or moving it sideways to get a better angle.

Absolutely this. There is a place that it should be taken, but it's never exact. It's just shocking defending by the wall tbh - if Toney's moved the ball to one side, twice, then I'd expect any half intelligent player from the age of 14 upwards to compensate by making sure the wall adjusted accordingly. Nuno needs to be looking at his own players here.

 

[bluenova]

Dale Johnson on X says VAR can’t get involved in things like this.

That does appear to be the case - looks like they can't make decisions of encroachment, or if a ball isn't in the corner quadrant etc.

Looks like the 'build-up' starts when the ball is kicked. That does seem a little odd to me as it's hardly a huge overextension of VAR.

I'd still argue that it's a yellow card if the ref is aware of it (and it's disappointing that neither assistant spotted it, when the ref has his back turned).

 

[bluenova]

Absolutely this. There is a place that it should be taken, but it's never exact. It's just shocking defending by the wall tbh - if Toney's moved the ball to one side, twice, then I'd expect any half intelligent player from the age of 14 upwards to compensate by making sure the wall adjusted accordingly. Nuno needs to be looking at his own players here.

To be fair, when he moved it the first time, the defender does spot an issue (even though I don't think he sees Toney moving the ball), and calls his keeper over to double check. Toney moves it a second time, as soon as the keeper has signed off on this, and neither of them are looking.

It's a little unfair to expect a defender, who has already spotted a potential issue, but been told the wall is correct, to go back and check again.

 

[bluenova]

David Luiz moves referee's spray at PSG free-kick to get better angle

The tool was introduced to football to help referees keep players sticking to the rules, but David Luiz found a way to make vanishing spray disappear on Tuesday night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I remember that one. Wasn't it the very first season the spray was in use? It was also significant enough to be reported as a news story.

Doesn't suggest it's something that is particularly common that it's nearly a decade later.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I remember that one. Wasn't it the very first season the spray was in use? It was also significant enough to be reported as a news story.

Doesn't suggest it's something that is particularly common that it's nearly a decade later.

It’s probably happened since and been forgotten about as players didn’t score from it.

It’ll happen again too when the focus on ball placement dies down enough.

I’d also want the referee to notice!

 

[Stephen230]

Have you ever seen a player move the referees markings?

Surely that's would be a fairly simple case of unsporting behaviour, and so be cautionable?

Why wouldn't it be covered by 'shows a lack of respect for the game', ;attempts to deceive the referee', or 'makes unauthorised marks on the field of play"?

Absolutely. If the referee sees it. But not something for the VAR.

 

[mattcity5]

To be fair, when he moved it the first time, the defender does spot an issue (even though I don't think he sees Toney moving the ball), and calls his keeper over to double check. Toney moves it a second time, as soon as the keeper has signed off on this, and neither of them are looking.

It's a little unfair to expect a defender, who has already spotted a potential issue, but been told the wall is correct, to go back and check again.

For me, if I'm the defender on the end of the wall and I know I'm where the keeper wants, but the ball gets moved, them I'm dragging the wall over a bit. If it happens twice, I move twice.

They can blame the ref, Toney, var, whatever - but they had the power to make sure that gap was covered and didn't do it.

 

[bluenova]

For me, if I'm the defender on the end of the wall and I know I'm where the keeper wants, but the ball gets moved, them I'm dragging the wall over a bit. If it happens twice, I move twice.

They can blame the ref, Toney, var, whatever - but they had the power to make sure that gap was covered and didn't do it.

Yes - but I don't think the defender knew he'd moved it the first time, and I am certain he didn't see him move it the second time.

The keeper is called over because he is the only one who can see the angle properly, if he's said it's fine, and the defender doesn't know something has then changed, what can he do? If he overrides the keeper and moves the wall, he's giving the keeper more of the goal to cover. He's surely got to trust his keeper, especially if he's already asked him to double check?

 

[mattcity5]

Yes - but I don't think the defender knew he'd moved it the first time, and I am certain he didn't see him move it the second time.

The keeper is called over because he is the only one who can see the angle properly, if he's said it's fine, and the defender doesn't know something has then changed, what can he do? If he overrides the keeper and moves the wall, he's giving the keeper more of the goal to cover. He's surely got to trust his keeper, especially if he's already asked him to double check?

Yeah, if he's turned and missed it happen, then it's not totally on him. Regardless though, I don't care if the keeper has said it's right - if the ball then gets moved it's no longer right, you have to adjust a touch.

If the guy on the end doesn't see it happen, someone in the wall must have, then they should push over.

Granted, it's possible that they tried and didn't quite have time. They could end with someone in the middle trying to move it but the guy on the end insisting it's right, unaware of the move.

Possibly difficult for them. Clever by Toney I'd say. It's all part of playing to the whistle and accepting the ref is always right - if you get away with it, well done.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Dale Johnson on X says VAR can’t get involved in things like this.

They make it up as they go along. The whole system is a joke.

 

[TinFoilHat]

They make it up as they go along. The whole system is a joke.

Darren Dipper England. Hates Forest.

 

[bluenova]

Yeah, if he's turned and missed it happen, then it's not totally on him. Regardless though, I don't care if the keeper has said it's right - if the ball then gets moved it's no longer right, you have to adjust a touch.

If the guy on the end doesn't see it happen, someone in the wall must have, then they should push over.

Granted, it's possible that they tried and didn't quite have time. They could end with someone in the middle trying to move it but the guy on the end insisting it's right, unaware of the move.

Possibly difficult for them. Clever by Toney I'd say. It's all part of playing to the whistle and accepting the ref is always right - if you get away with it, well done.

Remember the player can't see in two directions at once, so they can't know if they're in the wrong place accurately.

It's a good spot from the player that the line wasn't quite right after Toney moved it the first time, but from the look of things, he's asked the keeper to come back and check, and when that's ok'd. I don't think the defender can be expected to assume that Toney has moved the ball AND the white foam - ref's tend to draw a little half circle these days, so it's clearer where the ball has to stay.

 

[kaz7]

It is cheating and var are a sad excuse for cleaning up the game , works when it suits them , changes every fucking game depending on who is playing

 

[BlueMoonday]

He's actually right, sick of this cry arsing

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Beyond ridiculous when this isn't called a foul. Anywhere else on the pitch it's a free-kick and yellow card.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Remember the player can't see in two directions at once, so they can't know if they're in the wrong place accurately.

It's a good spot from the player that the line wasn't quite right after Toney moved it the first time, but from the look of things, he's asked the keeper to come back and check, and when that's ok'd. I don't think the defender can be expected to assume that Toney has moved the ball AND the white foam - ref's tend to draw a little half circle these days, so it's clearer where the ball has to stay.

I'm pretty sure Ian Dowie could.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I'm pretty sure Ian Dowie could.

If he couldn't, Peter Beardsley could.

 

[Blue Mist]

But you do agree it's ridiculous that offsides are measures to the mm, but VAR can't correct someone moving the ball and the referee's mark for a free-kick that is scored from? They really don't do themselves any favours with this VAR nonsense.

@halfcenturyup Var could and should have intervened. Stephen230 is wrong. It is classed as a serious missed incident, basically he cheated. He not only moved the ball, he moved the refs foam and then moved the ball again.