VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[SebastianBlue]

That no penalty decision against Arsenal in the Palace match is exactly why VAR is not *just* the tech — it involves the actual VAR official and the referee on the pitch because of the ‘clear and obvious’ threshold.

The referee did not give the penalty which meant VAR could choose not to deem whatever they saw in the replays as a clear and obvious error, thus no penalty.

 

[Stephen230]

That no penalty decision against Arsenal in the Palace match is exactly why VAR is not *just* the tech — it involves the actual VAR official and the referee on the pitch because of the ‘clear and obvious’ threshold.

The referee did not give the penalty which meant VAR could choose not to deem whatever they saw in the replays as a clear and obvious error, thus no penalty.

But isn’t this one of the most regular calls for how fans want VAR to be used ?

I’ve read a thousand times that what fans want is the VAR to be there to correct howlers and not get involved in giving a different subjective view to the subjective view of the referee.

 

[SebastianBlue]

But isn’t this one of the most regular calls for how fans want VAR to be used ?

I’ve read a thousand times that what fans want is the VAR to be there to correct howlers and not get involved in giving a different subjective view to the subjective view of the referee.

I have not indicated that VAR should only be used for howlers, so unless you are attempting to build a straw man argument, I am not sure what this has to do with my comment, which was about how the “clear and obvious” threshold can be manipulated to achieve desired outcomes of contentious incidents.

In fact, I have specifically said that “only correct the really obvious errors” is a demonstratively flawed approach to mitigating anything, as it is inherently subjective and easily manipulated.

Ironically, “clear and obvious” just adds yet another subjective layer, as it is not a threshold based on whether an error has been made, but rather if the error is of a sufficient level to warrant correcting.

It just allows more variance in decision-making, which makes illicit influence easier, not more difficult.

 

[lasereyes]

I have not indicated that VAR should only be used for howlers, so unless you are attempting to build a straw man argument, I am not sure what this has to do with my comment, which was about how the “clear and obvious” threshold can be manipulated to achieve desired outcomes of contentious incidents.

In fact, I have specifically said that “only correct the really obvious errors” is a demonstratively flawed approach to mitigating anything, as it is inherently subjective and easily manipulated.

Ironically, “clear and obvious” just adds yet another subjective layer, as it is not a threshold based on whether an error has been made, but rather if the error is of a sufficient level to warrant correcting.

It just allows more variance in decision-making, which makes illicit influence easier, not more difficult.

Exactly as we saw in the derby last year and at Trafford Toilet last week

 

[Bluesince1979]

That no penalty decision against Arsenal in the Palace match is exactly why VAR is not *just* the tech — it involves the actual VAR official and the referee on the pitch because of the ‘clear and obvious’ threshold.

The referee did not give the penalty which meant VAR could choose not to deem whatever they saw in the replays as a clear and obvious error, thus no penalty.

The biggest cop out the ‘clear and obvious’ bollocks

 

[Bantamgaz]

VAR will never work while you have poor officials running it .............. would it be so difficult to train other teams to run it who.have no connection to these bent bastards ??????How many tears has it been in now ????? And still they are getting it badly wrong ........... either bin it or get folk in who have no hidden agenda to keep certain clubs inn the spotlight

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Just watching the Villa penalty incident and neither the ref nor his lineman give that. It’s given via the refs ear and at the same time you see the linesman reach for his ear. Play moves on for a few seconds before he strangely reacts to what he is told and points to the spot and the VAR check took literally 2 seconds.

Don’t tell me that people miles away in rooms are not making decisions during games because they are.

I strongly believe this was happening well before VAR.

 

[shozzabluebird]

Here’s a thought…..we are about 3 or 4 years into this VAR experiment and I was wondering….is it not beyond the wit of man or technology for the guys at Pigmol to have started to build a library of video tapes of situations that are similar, such as the fouls BY the goalkeeper on the forward. Then when it happens again they consult their library and say…we gave it a foul then, it’s very similar/ same so we give the same result ! Not rocket science. Another example the Liverpool forward who got fouled on the edge of the box….you look for similar fouls in other games and give the same decision….is that not how to get CONSISTENCY?

 

[Father Paul]

Here’s a thought…..we are about 3 or 4 years into this VAR experiment and I was wondering….is it not beyond the wit of man or technology for the guys at Pigmol to have started to build a library of video tapes of situations that are similar, such as the fouls BY the goalkeeper on the forward. Then when it happens again they consult their library and say…we gave it a foul then, it’s very similar/ same so we give the same result ! Not rocket science. Another example the Liverpool forward who got fouled on the edge of the box….you look for similar fouls in other games and give the same decision….is that not how to get CONSISTENCY?

Not convinced it would be a feasible option but with the use of AI it should be technically possible.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Here’s a thought…..we are about 3 or 4 years into this VAR experiment and I was wondering….is it not beyond the wit of man or technology for the guys at Pigmol to have started to build a library of video tapes of situations that are similar, such as the fouls BY the goalkeeper on the forward. Then when it happens again they consult their library and say…we gave it a foul then, it’s very similar/ same so we give the same result ! Not rocket science. Another example the Liverpool forward who got fouled on the edge of the box….you look for similar fouls in other games and give the same decision….is that not how to get CONSISTENCY?

There's no such thing as consistency. Every situation is different. It's judgement in so many cases.

And no one else besides the ref should be making those decisions. But we have the 4 or 5 VAR refs making judgement calls giving a lot of opportunity for bias or influence to creep in.