VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[SebastianBlue]

And also alot easier to manipulate results without VAR , any tussle in the box and the ref can point to the spot for a pen. No VAR needed. No questions asked.
Player offside, lino just keeps his flag down. No VAR needed. No questions asked.

We’ve discussed this point before: football was under immense pressure to implement video replay review after refusing to adopt the system for assisting officiating much longer than essentially every other major sport in the world, in some cases decades after. That delay alone was highly suspect, given the technology required had been in use and perfected in the top five European leagues and major international tournaments for at least a decade before the initial implementation. It only needed a fairly simple viewing and communication layer, as well as modification to rules. But FIFA and UEFA (as well as leagues and clubs) dragged their feet as long as they could.

Many of us were calling for video review for many years and initially welcome the news it would finally be adopted across the leagues.

But then, when they finally implemented VAR—at least in the PL—they installed a version designed in a way that no reputable systems engineer focused on improving on-pitch officiating would ever conceive, with opaque in-game use, ambiguous rules that essentially render the system inert in all but egregious, scandal-inducing incidents (and even those seem to frequently make it through for reasons unknown), and laughably inept oversight and accountability (to that point where you question if it is not intentional).

Basically, if you were being forced to implement an external video replay based system in the Premier League that was outwardly meant to drastically reduce the number of inaccurate or contentious decisions being made by error- and bias-prone officials but inwardly didn’t actually want that system to fully achieve that goal and also wanted it to be open to frequent human error and/or deniable manipulation, this is the system you would build, implement, and refuse to change.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

And also alot easier to manipulate results without VAR , any tussle in the box and the ref can point to the spot for a pen. No VAR needed. No questions asked.
Player offside, lino just keeps his flag down. No VAR needed. No questions asked.

Aye for me its the transparency of the decisions I like with VAR. It does reduce the risk of corruption with individual refs and I think for that reason it's quite laudable that they have introduced VAR (if for that reason).

But that transparency is lost now. Clear and obvious can cater for anything. Refs, VAR, are still making howlers... we all think more than ever that there is corruption.

I see all of these negatives yet how many positives?

 

[BlueHammer85]

Aye for me its the transparency of the decisions I like with VAR. It does reduce the risk of corruption with individual refs and I think for that reason it's quite laudable that they have introduced VAR (if for that reason).

But that transparency is lost now. Clear and obvious can cater for anything. Refs, VAR, are still making howlers... we all think more than ever that there is corruption.

I see all of these negatives yet how many positives?

the positives are the countless times and the vast majority of times VAR is used to correctly give offsides, penalty decisions, red cards etc that would otherwise never have been given. these are never mentioned as that's just expected. It would become more noticeable if we were to scrap VAR. only have to watch the odd league game without VAR to see how some appalling decisions are allowed to stand - this one in the week for instance.

'He's offside!' | Controversy as Willy Gnonto gives Leeds lead again!

Wilfred Gnonto gives Leeds the lead going into the break but there is question marks over whether the goal shouldve stood due to offside.

www.skysports.com

however bad VAR is, I don't want to go back to a time where CLEAR dives, offsides and everything else are allowed to stand when they should not be.

 

[stonerblue]

There is something unhealthy with the relationship between the broadcasters (who pay for coverage) and the PGMOL. They are just too close to each other. I realise that the media criticises referees all the time but there is something wrong at a structural level and not enough transparency. The customers are kept out of the loop. It is the fans who fund the broadcasters (diectly via subscriptions and by response to advertising). How can PGMOL seemingly have the power to change the way the sport is played. The way VAR is being used and the rules are being manipulated is destroying the end product.

Sky have it sown up.
Pick fixtures, control media output, manipulate and corner the market. Align your gambling platform to that and bingo, a licence to print money

 

[stonerblue]

‘It’s killed football’ - been hearing it for years. Footballs only become bigger and the standards got better.
Officiating was the only thing holding it back and that’s why VAR was bought in , painful and slow progress is the only way forward and of course there will be controversy and bad decisions along the way - makes me laugh Kaz and others tag me everytime there’s some VAR controversy as if that’s going change my opinion.

It’s like tagging anyone who doesn’t want VAR into every bad decisions made by officials if VAR wasn’t around.

Yet you're giving up your ST after 35 years??

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yet you're giving up your ST after 35 years??

30 and Yes. absolutely nothing to do with VAR.

 

[stonerblue]

You know I have been a supporter of VAR. But that yesterday really really hit me. Maybe it’s how our officials use it. That was an absolute travesty. If that had been the rags I think I’m big enough to concede the unfairness of it. There was no justification to disallow that goal. Do we just put it down to human mistake/manipulation?

That decision perfectly encapsulates all that is wrong with var.
The desire to have 100% accurate decisions will rip the heart, soul and romance out of the game, and it showed it perfectly.

 

[Gray]

The TV commentator knows the VAR outcome before the match going fans do.

How can that be right?

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

And also alot easier to manipulate results without VAR , any tussle in the box and the ref can point to the spot for a pen. No VAR needed. No questions asked.
Player offside, lino just keeps his flag down. No VAR needed. No questions asked.

Easier to manipulate results without VAR, yes, but it's a lot easier to hide manipulated outcomes with VAR because people believe there is proper scrutiny of decisions.

 

[stonerblue]

the positives are the countless times and the vast majority of times VAR is used to correctly give offsides, penalty decisions, red cards etc that would otherwise never have been given. these are never mentioned as that's just expected. It would become more noticeable if we were to scrap VAR. only have to watch the odd league game without VAR to see how some appalling decisions are allowed to stand - this one in the week for instance.

'He's offside!' | Controversy as Willy Gnonto gives Leeds lead again!

Wilfred Gnonto gives Leeds the lead going into the break but there is question marks over whether the goal shouldve stood due to offside.

www.skysports.com

however bad VAR is, I don't want to go back to a time where CLEAR dives, offsides and everything else are allowed to stand when they should not be.

clear dives and offside are allowed to stand now

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Lol the famous VAR advocate actually claiming transparency and that it is easier to manipulate results without VAR!
Ignoring all the unseen, and unappealed for decisions of off the ball tickles and the ball brushing arm hairs, crooked or non-existent lines etc etc etc . That's before we get into the institionalised bias and PL directives. Legitimised cheating and outcome manipulation in plain sight.

Probably a v nice person - but incredibly gullible and I worry that a Nigerian (or other) Prince will phone him up, or he'll meet a watch salesman on the way back from a conference.

 

[Betterdeedthan red]

the positives are the countless times and the vast majority of times VAR is used to correctly give offsides, penalty decisions, red cards etc that would otherwise never have been given. these are never mentioned as that's just expected. It would become more noticeable if we were to scrap VAR. only have to watch the odd league game without VAR to see how some appalling decisions are allowed to stand - this one in the week for instance.

'He's offside!' | Controversy as Willy Gnonto gives Leeds lead again!

Wilfred Gnonto gives Leeds the lead going into the break but there is question marks over whether the goal shouldve stood due to offside.

www.skysports.com

however bad VAR is, I don't want to go back to a time where CLEAR dives, offsides and everything else are allowed to stand when they should not be.

Clear dives.
You only need to watch two minutes of a Premier league game to see a clear dive .
Followed by a 15 point role around.
Only to get up when nothings given

 

[BlueHammer85]

clear dives and offside are allowed to stand now

How many non contact clear dives have been awarded penalty’s this season ?

Now think back pre VAR Ronaldo, Salah, Kane etc all at it and being rewarded

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just a question. This is the image from Dale Johnson's review of the game last night. I guess it's official as it has the dotted line on it.



My question is: isn't there a big Liverpool boot all over the line drawn from Konate's shoulder?



So did they choose the wrong point to judge the offside? Again? It didn't really matter as the goal was given, but 2 more inches and it could have been wrongly disallowed?

 

[BlueHammer85]

Just a question. This is the image from Dale Johnson's review of the game last night. I guess it's official as it has the dotted line on it.

View attachment 115893

My question is: isn't there a big Liverpool boot all over the line drawn from Konate's shoulder?

View attachment 115894

So did they choose the wrong point to judge the offside? Again? It didn't really matter as the goal was given, but 2 more inches and it could have been wrongly disallowed?

Bigger question is why are they allowing the goal to stand if the agenda is to keep Liverpool in the title race ?

Pre VAR , the corrupt lino would just stick his flag up right ?

 

[halfcenturyup]

How many non contact clear dives have been awarded penalty’s this season ?

Now think back pre VAR Ronaldo, Salah, Kane etc all at it

All of which could have been punished with retrospective action but weren't. Why do you think that was?

There are other ways to stop diving than introducing a system costing tens of millions of pounds.

 

[kearsley blue]

Isn't that line sprouting from the boot indicating where the foot is keeping him onside?

 

[Stephen230]

Just a question. This is the image from Dale Johnson's review of the game last night. I guess it's official as it has the dotted line on it.

View attachment 115893

My question is: isn't there a big Liverpool boot all over the line drawn from Konate's shoulder?

View attachment 115894

So did they choose the wrong point to judge the offside? Again? It didn't really matter as the goal was given, but 2 more inches and it could have been wrongly disallowed?

You’ve better eyesight than me.

But that Everton player in the orange boots definitely looks a few inches off.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Bigger question is why are they allowing the goal to stand if the agenda is to keep Liverpool in the title race ?

Pre VAR , the corrupt lino would just stick his flag up right ?

Season isn't over yet :)

But my point wasn't about bias, my point was about accuracy.

 

[Andy TheCatalyst Morrison]

Just a question. This is the image from Dale Johnson's review of the game last night. I guess it's official as it has the dotted line on it.

View attachment 115893

My question is: isn't there a big Liverpool boot all over the line drawn from Konate's shoulder?

View attachment 115894

So did they choose the wrong point to judge the offside? Again? It didn't really matter as the goal was given, but 2 more inches and it could have been wrongly disallowed?

Was watching that and couldn’t believe they were going to potentially disallow if that was offside. That was about 10-15 seconds before the goal and Liverpool had 4 or 5 chances to clear it after that so how can a very marginal offside be used to disallow the goal? The game’s gone mad