VAR thread 2022/23

[Alan Harper's Tash]

same for fans with every decision

Liverpool fans fume as 'foul' on Henderson missed in build-up to Fulham goal

Jordan Henderson was brought down before Aleksandar Mitrovic put Fulham ahead against Liverpool, but fans are convinced that the goal should have been disallowed

www.dailystar.co.uk

there will always be contentious issues.

I’m not the one you need to convince.

My gripe with VAR is when you are in the stadium. You haven’t a clue what is going on. That’s what needs to change for me.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I’m not the one you need to convince.

My gripe with VAR is when you are in the stadium. You haven’t a clue what is going on. That’s what needs to change for me.

agree - but how do they do this ? they announce of big screen 'checking potential (penalty/red card/offside) etc

could show replays of the incident, but think you'd have thousands of biased fans going mental whatever they show

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

agree - but how do they do this ? they announce of big screen 'checking potential (penalty/red card/offside) etc

could show replays of the incident, but think you'd have thousands of biased fans going mental whatever they show

You can’t be biased on offsides. They are a matter of fact.

Whats the worst case scenario if a debatable penalty decision doesn’t go the home side’s way? Lots of booing and expletives shouted?

It should be like rugby. Hear the conversation between the ref and TMO.

 

[dadnlad]

Wasn’t football meant to be corrupt before VAR ?
Refs a cheat, fergie time etc etc ?

come on you know how a bully works

 

[BlueHammer85]

You can’t be biased on offsides. They are a matter of fact.

Whats the worst case scenario if a debatable penalty decision doesn’t go the home side’s way? Lots of booing and expletives shouted?

It should be like rugby. Hear the conversation between the ref and TMO.

if the offside is millimeters then fans go in uproar 'what angle is that? look at the line drawn' that's not from the point of contact! arrgghh! it's all corrupt ! bla bla

agreed on your second point

3rd point - I agree, but do the crowd in the stadium hear the conversations ?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

if the offside is millimeters then fans go in uproar 'what angle is that? look at the line drawn' that's not from the point of contact! arrgghh! it's all corrupt ! bla bla

agreed on your second point

3rd point - I agree, but do the crowd in the stadium hear the conversations ?

Not in the stadium, they wouldn’t as they wouldn’t see that.

City have had 2 offsides change the result, one in the last minute against Spurs in the champions league and one against Liverpool. They were both close and there were no riots.

Fans would learn to be quiet if they could hear the decisions play out.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Fans would learn to be quiet if they could hear the decisions play out.

really not sure a ref talking to VAR team and it playing out loud in the ground is the way to go - could be awful trying to hear them waffling over a decision and the fans getting restless and booing, moaning etc

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Handball laws as they currently stand:

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

I think we can all agree that Ruben didn't move his arm towards the ball. I think we can all agree he didn't make his body unnaturally bigger so why was it a penalty?

The FIRST question the VAR should have asked the referee was, did you see the ball hit Dias’s arm? If the answer was yes, and I’d imagine it was, nothing further needed to happen nor should happen.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

really not sure a ref talking to VAR team and it playing out loud in the ground is the way to go - could be awful trying to hear them waffling over a decision and the fans getting restless and booing, moaning etc

So let’s trial it and see what happens.

The biggest problem these days is the Trumpian post-truth attitude a lot of people have.

Fit the narrative to show your team has been wronged, rather than look at why a decision may have been made.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The FIRST question the VAR should have asked the referee was, did you see the ball hit Dias’s arm? If the answer was yes, and I’d imagine it was, nothing further needed to happen nor should happen.

That’s not how VAR works.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So let’s trial it and see what happens.

agree, that's the beauty of technology, we can continue to trial new and progress

those that want to revert back to just a ref and couple of linos would soon regret it once they realize how much officials actually miss

whatever happened to blatant clear diving with no contact to win a penalty ? that was rife a few seasons ago.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

if the offside is millimeters then fans go in uproar 'what angle is that? look at the line drawn' that's not from the point of contact! arrgghh! it's all corrupt ! bla bla

agreed on your second point

3rd point - I agree, but do the crowd in the stadium hear the conversations ?

If it's millimeters then that's when the manipulation comes into its own.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

whatever happened to blatant clear diving with no contact to win a penalty ? that was rife a few seasons ago.

Like everything in life, players adapted and it changed to forwards initiating contact and then learning to pirouette when touched in the box.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

That’s not how VAR works.

But, if he saw it, where was the ‘clear error’?

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

genuine question, but why ?

Well i think no matter how much training referees get to counter bias I do think it creeps through, its only natural.

And because of that, if it is one person taking decisions then ok, there might be some bias but probably not.

But if you have 6 or 7 people then the odds increase. Add to that the anonymity involved from the VAR team, the lack of kickback/scrutiny with major fuckups (or maybe just plain bias) like the non utd penalty then I think "Match Commanders" or anyone in that VAR room can affect the decisions.

I would love to hear the machinations of the decision making, I am assuming it is chaos with everyone having an input, or having an 'argument' on why a particular decision should or could be made.

Add to that I am a little paranoid when it comes to things that are hidden from us. Which is why they should, and will let us hear what's going on.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

But, if he saw it, where was the ‘clear error’?

Handballs aren’t about “clear errors”. There are guidelines that determine what is a penalty.

Dias had his arm raised, which made his body artificially bigger, therefore it was a penalty.

Fabinho’s wasn't for two reasons. He headed it onto his arm that was breaking his fall.

It wasn’t even fully looked at as we scored before the ball went out of play.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Well i think no matter how much training referees get to counter bias I do think it creeps through, its only natural.

And because of that, if it is one person taking decisions then ok, there might be some bias but probably not.

But if you have 6 or 7 people then the odds increase. Add to that the anonymity involved from the VAR team, the lack of kickback/scrutiny with major fuckups (or maybe just plain bias) like the non utd penalty then I think "Match Commanders" or anyone in that VAR room can affect the decisions.

I would love to hear the machinations of the decision making, I am assuming it is chaos with everyone having an input, or having an 'argument' on why a particular decision should or could be made.

Add to that I am a little paranoid when it comes to things that are hidden from us. Which is why they should, and will let us hear what's going on.

If you hold that opinion, football will be “corrupt”, whatever system is employed.

This then begs the question as to why you’d follow football at all if you think it corrupt.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Handballs aren’t about “clear errors”. There are guidelines that determine what is a penalty.

Dias had his arm raised, which made his body artificially bigger, therefore it was a penalty.

Fabinho’s wasn't for two reasons. He headed it onto his arm that was breaking his fall.

It wasn’t even fully looked at as we scored before the ball went out of play.

Hand ball law as it stands:

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

Ruben's arm didn't make his body unnaturally bigger as his body movement was justifiable. Where else could he have naturally put it. He was turning around in mid air.

Still haven't seen an angle which shows Fabinho headed it onto his arm although from the only angle I have seen it appears that was the case in which case it's no penalty. That said didn't Spurs concede a ridiculous penalty last season or possibly the one before when an attacker headed the ball onto the defender's arm who wasn't even looking at the ball. VAR judged that to be a handball despite the ref not awarding the penalty at the time. And then of course on the other scale is their goal against us in the CL which was handball but the ref wasn't shown the correct angle. At least in rugby not only do we hear the conversation but the ref asks for every single angle available not just what the broadcaster wants to show.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Hand ball law as it stands:

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

Ruben's arm didn't make his body unnaturally bigger as his body movement was justifiable. Where else could he have naturally put it. He was turning around in mid air.

Still haven't seen an angle which shows Fabinho headed it onto his arm although from the only angle I have seen it appears that was the case in which case it's no penalty. That said didn't Spurs concede a ridiculous penalty last season or possibly the one before when an attacker headed the ball onto the defender's arm who wasn't even looking at the ball. VAR judged that to be a handball despite the ref not awarding the penalty at the time. And then of course on the other scale is their goal against us in the CL which was handball but the ref wasn't shown the correct angle. At least in rugby not only do we hear the conversation but the ref asks for every single angle available not just what the broadcaster wants to show.

Yet every time a player has the ball strike their hand in Dias’ position, a penalty is given.

If the player’s hand is raised and the ball hits it, it is now a penalty and has been for the last 2 years.

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

Yet every time a player has the ball strike their hand in Dias’ position, a penalty is given.

If the player’s hand is raised and the ball hits it, it is now a penalty and has been for the last 2 years.

Yet the law states differently.