West Ham post game....

PrestwichPeteMcfc said:
Velencia was left on his own as Delph got sucked towards the ball. Ya
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FantasyIreland said:
Enough is enough but the reality is we can expect a fair few further similar episodes while this management tesm is in situ
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Fantasyireland, I am curious as to your expectations of manager when his team concedes goals of individual error. Outside of getting rid of such players and perhaps buying error free players. You really can't coach for individual errors.
 
BobKowalski said:
I'm not grumbling at the point. West Ham are a good side and played very well yesterday. A point when they are in that form is OK. I don't even agree with most of the player criticism esp Toure...its just that wretched 2nd goal. It's killed me. We concede too many of these soft, dozy arsed goals. It's becoming the signature tune of Pellers reign. At Villa in his first season we were undone by a long hopeful punt upfield and two seasons later it's a throw in. No team at this level or any fucking level should be undone like that. No more. Enough is enough.
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No, no, no. They are just individual errors, they will get sorted out when the players understand Pellegrini's system.

Remember that one?

Oh sorry, there it is again .....
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I don't disagree with your basic premise that Yaya is important to us but I fundamentally disagree that he's played as a DM. He isn't and defensive midfield players don't score 20 goals like he did two seasons ago. De Jong was a defensive midfielder as his role was to sit in front of the back four and intercept anything coming in to avoid a defender being exposed.

I don't really know the correct definition for the role that Yaya does - maybe deep-lying playmaker, link-man or something - but he basically dictates the rhythm of the team, taking the ball off defenders and keeping it moving, mostly forwards. Somewhat like Pirlo.
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Well yes, that's the role he played against West Ham, and frankly did it well.
 
Scully said:
No complaints with the ref yesterday, which makes a welcome change. To be honest he could have sent MDM off too for that tackle.
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It's was a risky tackle that's for sure. I think we just about got the benefit of the doubt with that because I certainly think had he got past Demichellis he would have got a shot away.
 
stablemcfc said:
Yes he didn't have a particularly great impact in those 30 minutes, but that's not my point. He's been good for the majority of the season, so to say he shouldn't start over someone whose been poor for 4-5 matches now because he had a poor impact as a substitute seems a little odd. Not to mention the fact if he starts then we can have our front 4 all in their natural positions rather than the nonsense of Silva/KdB as wingers.

Fernando coming on for Silva was the right call? Perhaps if we wanted to hang on for the draw, which is what the last 10 minutes turned into after that substitution - but why should we be wanting to hang onto a draw against West Ham? This is a team that got destroyed by Newcastle just last week - a point is simply not a good result, we needed a win & I think you'd struggle to say we're more likely to get the win with Fernando on the pitch in place of Silva regardless of how he'd played.

Think you're misinterpreting my post, Kelechi came on & had a positive impact yes - and whenever he has come on he's almost invariably had a positive impact correct? I'm saying the manager did the right thing bringing him on for 30 minutes, whereas in the past he's given him 2-3 minutes which is next to pointless really - my point was that he should be doing what he did today more in the future, rather than reverting back to giving him 2-3 minutes which wouldn't surprise anyone if it happened.
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My apologies on the Kelechi confusion. I was just asserting itvwaa a good sub.

On the issue of Fernando sub, it was good because we got the equalizer for taking a risk of putting in a Striker for a CM. No need to continue playing so riskily when the game was tied. Sure we looked up when we played with 5 attacking mids, but that was partly because WH was ahead and sat back. Once it was tied, if they had gone back into their normal mode, we'd had been short 2 players in central mid. For me that was a good common sense sub.

We weren't looking for a draw, but we weren't gonna go all out looking for the with an unwartanted risk of actually losing it.

Nothing wrong with that sub in my opinion. Had we not giving up a silly error goal. It would have been Kelechi in for Silva directly.
 
halfcenturyup said:
No, no, no. They are just individual errors, they will get sorted out when the players understand Pellegrini's system.

Remember that one?

Oh sorry, there it is again .....
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Yeah I remember that...and the follow up tune 'It will all get sorted when we buy players who can fit into Peller's system'. That's gone well.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I didn't think the Fernando sub was that bad in itself. We had no one in front of the back four and risked losing the game as much as winning it. But it's the thinking that left us short in the first place that annoyed me. He put Iheanacho on for Delph, who was providing some cover, yet left Silva and De Bruyne on, both of who had been completely ineffectual. That left Yaya as the only midfielder who might have provided some defensive cover but that's just not his game. Had he taken KDB off it wouldn't have altered the defensive shape at all. Yet after two changes he then realised that Song had the run of midfield and was a danger to the chance of us getting anything out of the game so had to counter it. But if he hadn't cocked up hi subs in the first place he wouldn't have needed to do that.

I actually believe he's costing us points and that we'd be better off getting rid and letting Kidd and the players run things for the rest of the season. They all look completely pissed off with him.
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I disagree with getting rid now. There's a good manager deep down inside Manuel but he's painted himself into a corner with his all out attacking ethos and doesn't seem to have the strength of character to change that philosophy for the good of the team.

If we were to get rid now, outside of Mourinho, I can't think of anyone available who would step in until the end of the season and improve things significantly. For me Txiki has to step in and point out the obvious to Manuel. We were all led to believe that our holistic philosophy would be based on Barca's 433 but what we have seen over the last 2 1/2 seasons has been anything and everything but.

From the moment I saw the team sheet I shit myself thinking 'What the fuck is he doing playing Yaya in a midfield two AGAIN!' What happened yesterday had nothing to do with injuries or rotation, it was purely down to a lack of respect for a team who handed us a beating at home earlier in the season and that is all down to Manuel. But as I said, he's got us into this situation, he needs to dig us the fuck out of it...
 
fatbloke said:
Cracking response, well explained and thought out.
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Pointless talking to people with the opinion you have, as your mind is made up. I did type out a response, but thought what the fuck, as if you genuinely believe, after watching the goal again, that it is purely down to Toure being lazy, then it's not worth it.
 
malg said:
Pointless talking to people with the opinion you have, as your mind is made up. I did type out a response, but thought what the fuck, as if you genuinely believe, after watching the goal again, that it is purely down to Toure being lazy, then it's not worth it.
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So basically you're a Yaya fan boy who can't justify your own response so hide behind the "can't be arsed replying" bollocks, yet felt compelled enough to respond with that utter shite comment. Kinda contradictory, don't ya think.
 
Dribble said:
I disagree with getting rid now. There's a good manager deep down inside Manuel but he's painted himself into a corner with his all out attacking ethos and doesn't seem to have the strength of character to change that philosophy for the good of the team.

If we were to get rid now, outside of Mourinho, I can't think of anyone available who would step in until the end of the season and improve things significantly. For me Txiki has to step in and point out the obvious to Manuel. We were all led to believe that our holistic philosophy would be based on Barca's 433 but what we have seen over the last 2 1/2 seasons has been anything and everything but.

From the moment I saw the team sheet I shit myself thinking 'What the fuck is he doing playing Yaya in a midfield two AGAIN!' What happened yesterday had nothing to do with injuries or rotation, it was purely down to a lack of respect for a team who handed us a beating at home earlier in the season and that is all down to Manuel. But as I said, he's got us into this situation, he needs to dig us the fuck out of it...
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It probably isn't a good idea about getting rid now but I do wonder if his inability to see what's obvious to us isn't costing us points. With the FA Cup, CL and a packed league programme, I don't imagine we'll be doing that much actual training more than keeping things ticking over. I agree that Txiki should be virtually ordering him to play at least two of the Ferns and Delph in away games but if he doesn't then perhaps we should get rid to maximise our chance of at least winning the PL and getting to the CL last eight.

As it happens, we're still well placed, with the rest of the top 5 still to visit the Etihad and visits to five of the bottom six. We really need to make the most of this opportunity though.
 
fatbloke said:
So basically you're a Yaya fan boy who can't justify your own response so hide behind the "can't be arsed replying" bollocks, yet felt compelled enough to respond with that utter shite comment. Kinda contradictory, don't ya think.
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There we go, the morons answer to anything 'fanboy'. Your post made it obvious that you just hate Toure. That's all it is, hate. I'll be glad when the club eventually price idiots like you out of games and bring in more glory hunters, maybe they'll have a better appreciation of the game.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
As it happens, we're still well placed, with the rest of the top 5 still to visit the Etihad and visits to five of the bottom six. We really need to make the most of this opportunity though.
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As I've just posted in another thread, we haven't won a game this season against the others in the top 7, so things need to improve quickly, but its certainly still in our hands. Nobody seems to be able to get any consistency though, in the last 5 games we have the (joint) second best points total form wise, behind West Ham !

Not such a bad result yesterday was it ?
 
fatbloke said:
So basically you're a Yaya fan boy who can't justify your own response so hide behind the "can't be arsed replying" bollocks, yet felt compelled enough to respond with that utter shite comment. Kinda contradictory, don't ya think.
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malg said:
There we go, the morons answer to anything 'fanboy'. Your post made it obvious that you just hate Toure. That's all it is, hate. I'll be glad when the club eventually price idiots like you out of games and bring in more glory hunters, maybe they'll have a better appreciation of the game.
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Can you BOTH stop derailing the thread with personal arguments.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
It probably isn't a good idea about getting rid now but I do wonder if his inability to see what's obvious to us isn't costing us points. With the FA Cup, CL and a packed league programme, I don't imagine we'll be doing that much actual training more than keeping things ticking over. I agree that Txiki should be virtually ordering him to play at least two of the Ferns and Delph in away games but if he doesn't then perhaps we should get rid to maximise our chance of at least winning the PL and getting to the CL last eight.

As it happens, we're still well placed, with the rest of the top 5 still to visit the Etihad and visits to five of the bottom six. We really need to make the most of this opportunity though.
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I don't disagree with you in essence, its just I can see the headlines if we were to sack Manuel now. I think it would have a destabilising effect and I also think it would further enbolden the players to believe they have the power to decide a managers future just like the Chelsea players did and apparently some of ours did with Mancini.

Seeing players walking off shaking their heads leads me to wonder if the players have given up on Manuel because of the Pep rumours. Whatever's the case, we are still in 4 competitions and still have it all to play for so Txiki and Co should be press this point home to our squad because Manuel may be the Manager, but Manchester City Football Club are their employers and they would do well to remember that.
 
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cleavers said:
As I've just posted in another thread, we haven't won a game this season against the others in the top 7, so things need to improve quickly, but its certainly still in our hands. Nobody seems to be able to get any consistency though, in the last 5 games we have the (joint) second best points total form wise, behind West Ham !

Not such a bad result yesterday was it ?
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Nope. Not that I was grumbling about the point but my ire over that second goal has lessened over the last 30 minutes or so. Can't think why.
 
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