Work For Dole

[kinkysleftfoot]

What I would like to know from a practical point of view how is this going to work. You have potentially 200,000 people who could fall into this bracket of them a proportion should actually be on sick anyway. Then with what you have left of pretty much the vast majority are going to be in deprived areas even rural areas in some cases where there is very little hope of them finding work anyway.

So the problem is in order to find them work you are either gonna create work which in itself is going to put someone else out of a job. Or cost the taxpayer more money because the work needed doing in the first place. After all there's only so many shopping trollies you can pull out of a canal, and there is only so much litter you can pick? A number of charities and big businesses have pretty much already given this idea the wide birth because of taking a job off someone or being accused of taking advantage of free labour. So what are these army's of people probably all living next to each other on the same estate gonna do?

From what I have seen so far neither parties leading on this have the silver bullet on how to solve this problem both are flawed in many ways. But isn't the way to solve a problem best tackled from why the current solution is failing instead trying to reinvent the wheel.

Community projects,

I see lots of run down derelict properties and buildings, surely they could be used to help renovate these places. At the same time they would gain a skill. Once the properties have been sold or let out the revenue could go back into the next project.These places could also be sold below market value and help get people onto the housing ladder
These are not viable projects for a business but they should cover costs and help rejuvenate an area


Charity work

What's to stop them helping out with soup kitchens etc?

Roads

Get them filling holes in on the roads...........this will be then done at cost thus saving councils thousands, once again learning some sort of skill. I can't see this taking any one else's job as it seems to take forever to get the roads sorted.


Many many things these people could do that would benefit everyone and give them some sort of self worth.

 

[Mike D]

What I would like to know from a practical point of view how is this going to work. You have potentially 200,000 people who could fall into this bracket of them a proportion should actually be on sick anyway. Then with what you have left of pretty much the vast majority are going to be in deprived areas even rural areas in some cases where there is very little hope of them finding work anyway.

So the problem is in order to find them work you are either gonna create work which in itself is going to put someone else out of a job. Or cost the taxpayer more money because the work needed doing in the first place. After all there's only so many shopping trollies you can pull out of a canal, and there is only so much litter you can pick? A number of charities and big businesses have pretty much already given this idea the wide birth because of taking a job off someone or being accused of taking advantage of free labour. So what are these army's of people probably all living next to each other on the same estate gonna do?

From what I have seen so far neither parties leading on this have the silver bullet on how to solve this problem both are flawed in many ways. But isn't the way to solve a problem best tackled from why the current solution is failing instead trying to reinvent the wheel.

Community projects,

I see lots of run down derelict properties and buildings, surely they could be used to help renovate these places. At the same time they would gain a skill. Once the properties have been sold or let out the revenue could go back into the next project.These places could also be sold below market value and help get people onto the housing ladder
These are not viable projects for a business but they should cover costs and help rejuvenate an area


Charity work

What's to stop them helping out with soup kitchens etc?

Roads

Get them filling holes in on the roads...........this will be then done at cost thus saving councils thousands, once again learning some sort of skill. I can't see this taking any one else's job as it seems to take forever to get the roads sorted.


Many many things these people could do that would benefit everyone and give them some sort of self worth.

You're really not thinking this through mate. What's to say all this need doing in there area. To get them to do this work you are either gonna have to put on a bus to get there because there is no public transport other than walking for miles on end. In essence if there is no work within the community they live in where is the community work gonna come from? You end up spending more money to solve the problem than you would have just paying someone to do it in the first place.

For example there are particular high level of unemployment in the north east Cumbria, Carlisle etc

 

[shootmeifipost10k]

What I would like to know from a practical point of view how is this going to work. You have potentially 200,000 people who could fall into this bracket of them a proportion should actually be on sick anyway. Then with what you have left of pretty much the vast majority are going to be in deprived areas even rural areas in some cases where there is very little hope of them finding work anyway.

So the problem is in order to find them work you are either gonna create work which in itself is going to put someone else out of a job. Or cost the taxpayer more money because the work needed doing in the first place. After all there's only so many shopping trollies you can pull out of a canal, and there is only so much litter you can pick? A number of charities and big businesses have pretty much already given this idea the wide birth because of taking a job off someone or being accused of taking advantage of free labour. So what are these army's of people probably all living next to each other on the same estate gonna do?

From what I have seen so far neither parties leading on this have the silver bullet on how to solve this problem both are flawed in many ways. But isn't the way to solve a problem best tackled from why the current solution is failing instead trying to reinvent the wheel.

Community projects,

I see lots of run down derelict properties and buildings, surely they could be used to help renovate these places. At the same time they would gain a skill. Once the properties have been sold or let out the revenue could go back into the next project.These places could also be sold below market value and help get people onto the housing ladder
These are not viable projects for a business but they should cover costs and help rejuvenate an area


Charity work

What's to stop them helping out with soup kitchens etc?

Roads

Get them filling holes in on the roads...........this will be then done at cost thus saving councils thousands, once again learning some sort of skill. I can't see this taking any one else's job as it seems to take forever to get the roads sorted.


Many many things these people could do that would benefit everyone and give them some sort of self worth.

You're really not thinking this through mate. What's to say all this need doing in there area. To get them to do this work you are either gonna have to put on a bus and ship them out there. Community in esense is within the community THEY are in not the one that you are in or as I said this will cost more to solve the problem than just paying someone to do it in the first place.

Like you said Mike with the believed numbers, if it ever happened all the work would be done after a couple of weeks then all they would be doing each day would be sitting in portakabins drinking tea.

 

[SWP's back]

No it's not. The whole point was avoided.

The lad tried getting work and the comment I made about JJB was justified.

I'm saying the scheme is ridiculous. The reply from Ban just says how proud he is to of worked all his life. My point was completely avoided.

No it wasn't. Ban owned you.

The problem is that some people think certain work below them. I finished Uni having been to a posh school and with a degree in Economics and Geography and guess what, I had to find a shit job in a call centre. I spent two years doing shitty call centre jobs whilst I studied for industry qualifications to end up in the career I am now in. I hated it, but it was work, it enabled me to pay my bills and whilst it was well beneath my qualifications, I am fucking glad I did that rather than go on the dole, I have no gap in my cv since the age of 15 when I was a pot wash.

-- Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:23 am --

This is simply a populist, ill-conceived policy to appease the Tory right and an attempt to stop the haemorrhaging of votes to UKIP, who are actually beginning to influence the coalition by osmosis.
It is fundamentally flawed logic.
One of the criteria for claiming benefit is that you are looking for paid employment 24/7.
How the fuck are you supposed to do this if you are picking up litter 8 hours a day?
It will doubtless go down well with the blue rinse brigade in the shires, but like most kneejerk vote-salvaging exercises it won't work in practice.

Because I am sure that happens.

In many cases I'm sure it doesn't, but removing the possibility means it definitely won't for those who may make the effort if they weren't professional dog shit operatives.
So what happens to these folk?
They are not being prepared for the workforce by retraining or doing useful stuff like updating CV's, interview techniques, computer skills, etc.
Do they take a degree in Excrement Disposal after a couple of years when they are utterly de-motivated and de-skilled?
And here's me thinking that a Desmond was a shit degree.
It is just a stupid vote-winning unworkable piece of rhetoric that has as much chance of succeeding as me giving up Guinness.

If they were not able to get a job in two years of 24/7 full time "looking" then a job may be beyond those people fella.

 

[PSmyth07]

It basically happens now. I had to do an 8 week work placement full time or they'd stop my money. I didn't have a problem doing it but it hasn't helped me one bit so far to get a job. To be honest, it affected my job search because I found I had little time where I could do a proper job search.

I'm still doing it now only part time so it gives me time to job hunt.

The Job centre is a farce though, I have a meeting with my advisor for next Friday and it will be the first one I've had for four months.

 

[cockneycarparkm32]

Community projects,

I see lots of run down derelict properties and buildings, surely they could be used to help renovate these places. At the same time they would gain a skill. Once the properties have been sold or let out the revenue could go back into the next project.These places could also be sold below market value and help get people onto the housing ladder
These are not viable projects for a business but they should cover costs and help rejuvenate an area


Charity work

What's to stop them helping out with soup kitchens etc?

Roads

Get them filling holes in on the roads...........this will be then done at cost thus saving councils thousands, once again learning some sort of skill. I can't see this taking any one else's job as it seems to take forever to get the roads sorted.


Many many things these people could do that would benefit everyone and give them some sort of self worth.

You're really not thinking this through mate. What's to say all this need doing in there area. To get them to do this work you are either gonna have to put on a bus and ship them out there. Community in esense is within the community THEY are in not the one that you are in or as I said this will cost more to solve the problem than just paying someone to do it in the first place.

Like you said Mike with the believed numbers, if it ever happened all the work would be done after a couple of weeks then all they would be doing each day would be sitting in portakabins drinking tea.

Hulme and Moss side ran a local labour initiative in 95` . Same way the trafford centre .East Manchester the very same . Where have these local labour initiatives gone . Abroad maybe along with the localized spending<br /><br />-- Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:21 pm --<br /><br />

Community projects,

I see lots of run down derelict properties and buildings, surely they could be used to help renovate these places. At the same time they would gain a skill. Once the properties have been sold or let out the revenue could go back into the next project.These places could also be sold below market value and help get people onto the housing ladder
These are not viable projects for a business but they should cover costs and help rejuvenate an area


Charity work

What's to stop them helping out with soup kitchens etc?

Roads

Get them filling holes in on the roads...........this will be then done at cost thus saving councils thousands, once again learning some sort of skill. I can't see this taking any one else's job as it seems to take forever to get the roads sorted.


Many many things these people could do that would benefit everyone and give them some sort of self worth.

You're really not thinking this through mate. What's to say all this need doing in there area. To get them to do this work you are either gonna have to put on a bus and ship them out there. Community in esense is within the community THEY are in not the one that you are in or as I said this will cost more to solve the problem than just paying someone to do it in the first place.

Like you said Mike with the believed numbers, if it ever happened all the work would be done after a couple of weeks then all they would be doing each day would be sitting in portakabins drinking tea.

Hulme and Moss side ran a local labour initiative in 95` . Same way the trafford centre .East Manchester the very same . Where have these local labour initiatives gone . Abroad maybe along with the localized spending

 

[stonerblue]

What I would like to know from a practical point of view how is this going to work. You have potentially 200,000 people who could fall into this bracket of them a proportion should actually be on sick anyway. Then with what you have left of pretty much the vast majority are going to be in deprived areas even rural areas in some cases where there is very little hope of them finding work anyway.

So the problem is in order to find them work you are either gonna create work which in itself is going to put someone else out of a job. Or cost the taxpayer more money because the work needed doing in the first place. After all there's only so many shopping trollies you can pull out of a canal, and there is only so much litter you can pick? A number of charities and big businesses have pretty much already given this idea the wide birth because of taking a job off someone or being accused of taking advantage of free labour. So what are these army's of people probably all living next to each other on the same estate gonna do?

From what I have seen so far neither parties leading on this have the silver bullet on how to solve this problem both are flawed in many ways. But isn't the way to solve a problem best tackled from why the current solution is failing instead trying to reinvent the wheel.

How are they going to control the 887.000 (IPPR) long term jobless that they plan to force to attend Job centre 9 to 5, five days a week?

 

[johnny on the spot]

Getting them to work in soup kitchens is a top idea. That way they can quite literally feed their families. Fuck's sake.

 

[mcmanus]

Best one I've heard is this 60 year old, one eyed woman who can barely read and can only write her name has been sent on a mandatory computer course. The poor woman can't send text messages and is scared to death what a computer is. Was a factory worker but sod all for her as nowadays there are 50 people for every job and they can read a health and safety test.

What a waste of time and money.

 

[yerwot?]

Best one I've heard is this 60 year old, one eyed woman who can barely read and can only write her name has been sent on a mandatory computer course. The poor woman can't send text messages and is scared to death what a computer is. Was a factory worker but sod all for her as nowadays there are 50 people for every job and they can read a health and safety test.

What a waste of time and money.

Atos were not given £100,000,000 to actually assess people, (how quaint) , it's all about payback, all about pandering to the party faithful, and it's working